Representative tries to put the fear of God in atheist

[Bright Life]

Christian tries to toss atheist out of state legislature. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-change_atheist_bd06apr06,0,1260452.story)

I just saw this because another atheist sent it to me in an email. It's really sad that she hasn't been taken to task nationally for her despicable activity.

[lpetrich]

As I've posted elsewhere, Rep. Monique Davis, a Chicago Democratic black woman in public office, seems to think that atheism is much worse than:

Belief that black people have the curse of Ham (Gen 9:18-28) on them, and therefore must be the slaves and servants of white people.

Belief that women ought to shut up about religion and ask their husbands about it (1 Cor 14:33-35), and that women should never have authority over men (1 Tim 2:10-11).

Leaders should either be absolute monarchs or theocrats (Moses, Peter, etc.), without there being anything like Congress or elections.

[tjakey]

This woman is a Democrat...and I'm supposed to support that party, why? (The only Muslim on the hill is a Democrat as well, Rep Keith Ellison.)

[Garnet]

"This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God," Davis said. "Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here!

Despicable.

[shipload]

This woman is a Democrat...and I'm supposed to support that party, why? (The only Muslim on the hill is a Democrat as well, Rep Keith Ellison.)


To make the point that the Democrats are also wackjobs. Those which imitate the Repugnantcans are there as warnings to not put much stock in partisan politics.

And what does being the only Moslem on Capitol Hill being a Democrat have to do with anything? Are you intending to insult our steadfast allies Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, the Emirates, Jordan, Indonesia, and Azerbaijan (all of which our current administration has been assisting), not to mention the nominally neutral in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Malaya, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan, by intimating that their fellow religionist is somehow unqualified and unwelcome to hold office in the U.S. Congress? That the Democrats are somehow tainted for recognizing the leadership skills of somebody who happens to be Moslem?

From what I remember, the US Constitution has a requirement that there be NO RELIGIOUS TEST TO VOTE OR HOLD OFFICE in the United States. Have you a problem with that?

[shipload]

"This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God," Davis said. "Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here!

Despicable.

And ironic. From the biographies I've read, Lincoln was not much of a religionist. Oh, he knew the language of the day, but he was evidently a very strong doubter, an agnostic, or quietly atheistic.

[DanB]

By "here", did Davis mean in the chambers testifying, being a citizen of Illinois, or drawing breath on the planet?

[Garnet]

"This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God," Davis said. "Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here!

Despicable.

And ironic. From the biographies I've read, Lincoln was not much of a religionist. Oh, he knew the language of the day, but he was evidently a very strong doubter, an agnostic, or quietly atheistic.

One of my favorite quotes is attibuted to Abe:

When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion.

[Garnet]

By "here", did Davis mean in the chambers testifying, being a citizen of Illinois, or drawing breath on the planet?

Ayup.

[perfessor]

The author of that article, Eric Zorn, has been a columnist at the Chicago Tribune for many years. He's also 'out' as an atheist.

[laughing dog]

Gee, the old "your different thoughts" are dangerous because I'm a moron argument.

[Bright Life]

I wish some other legislators had come out and told her to STFU. Guess that wouldn't help with garnering bill support...But damn...

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

Keith Olbermann had a few things to say about the issue:

Keith Olbermann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbYeQJn-Xyo)

[tjakey]

This woman is a Democrat...and I'm supposed to support that party, why? (The only Muslim on the hill is a Democrat as well, Rep Keith Ellison.)


And what does being the only Moslem on Capitol Hill being a Democrat have to do with anything? Are you intending to insult our steadfast allies Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, the Emirates, Jordan, Indonesia, and Azerbaijan (all of which our current administration has been assisting), not to mention the nominally neutral in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Malaya, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan, by intimating that their fellow religionist is somehow unqualified and unwelcome to hold office in the U.S. Congress? That the Democrats are somehow tainted for recognizing the leadership skills of somebody who happens to be Moslem?


Yeah, pretty much. Islam is a demented ideology that brings nothing to the world but untold misery...the Saudi's financed 9/11 and most of the hijackers came from that country (as does Bin Louden). If any country treated Blacks like the Saudi's do women, the US would be trying to get them thrown out of the UN and screaming (rightly) about civil rights. If gw da shrub openly backed a government that made it a point of law that people of African descent were denied an education and were not even allowed out of the house unless accompanied by a White Man, we would burn the White House to the ground with him in it. (And I, mind you, am a middle class white guy.)

Same for most of the "allies" that are on your list. To me any free adult in the world today who clings to Islam has about as much claim to "leadership" as someone who insists that the world is flat, that the earth is the center of the universe, and that women are some kind of second class human fit only to serve men. Muslim, KKK, Skin-head, Zionist, Young-earth creationist; different facets of the same mental illness. Fit for leadership? Only on this poor, blighted little planet, (one hopes anyway).

I'm usually a "live and let live" kind of guy, as long as the other fellow is of like mind. Unfortunately Islam seems to be more the "live as I tell you to live or death the the infidels" kind of thing. Islam is an insult to civilized society...so if the Muslims are insulted by my not caring for their ideology then I guess we are even.

[dancer_rnb]

Christians (Orthodox) in the Balkans used to have an interesting saying,:
"Better the Turks than the Latins" (in other words,Catholics)"

[tjakey]

Dancer, obviously I am no admirer of religion but I am just an atheist. To really hate a religion I think one has to hold to some other religion. (Or just to some other branch of the same religion. I'm not sure who is better at that, the Christians or the Muslims. They sure seem to hate their own as much as they hate the other guy.)

[dancer_rnb]

Reading history of regions and periods like the Balkans , the Byzantine or Ottoman periods is a real eye opener.

[Zebulon]

This woman is a Democrat...and I'm supposed to support that party, why? (The only Muslim on the hill is a Democrat as well, Rep Keith Ellison.)

Actually, a second Muslim was elected to Congress in a special election held last month.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1164415020080312

Second Muslim elected to Congress

Tue Mar 11, 2008
By Judith Cebula

INDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - Indiana voters on Tuesday elected a Muslim to Congress, only the second of that faith chosen in U.S. history.

Andre Carson, grandson of the late Democrat Rep. Julia Carson, was elected to serve the balance of her term in the U.S. House of Representatives in a special election.

She died in December 2007, after serving 11 years in the heavily Democratic district.

The younger Carson, 33, a member of the Indianapolis City Council who converted to Islam about a decade ago, will serve out the remainder of his grandmother's term through calendar 2008. He beat Republican Jon Elrod and a third party candidate with 52 percent of the vote to 44 percent for Elrod.

...

[tjakey]

Well, I guess if there are two Muslims in Congress all is well...me bad.

[Zebulon]

No biggie, just making a factual correction. I'm a news junkie, and I remembered hearing about this story.

[tjakey]

I have to admit I'm not near the news junkie I used to be and completely missed that one.

[Bright Life]

http://www.wbbm780.com/Lawmaker-Apo'logizes-For-Comments-Against-Atheist/1980701

She's apologized, with a reasonable explanation for her outburst.

Outburst or no, though, it's obvious that's the way she thinks. I wouldn't doubt that's the way she votes, too.

[slumtrimpet]

http://www.wbbm780.com/Lawmaker-Apo'logizes-For-Comments-Against-Atheist/1980701

She's apologized, with a reasonable explanation for her outburst.

Outburst or no, though, it's obvious that's the way she thinks. I wouldn't doubt that's the way she votes, too.

Reasonable?
According to Sherman and State Rep. Jack Franks….Davis claims her outburst was triggered by learning shortly beforehand…that there’d been another Chicago Public School student killed. How does a student being killed have anything remotely to do with atheism? :banghead:

[DanB]

Outburst or no, though, it's obvious that's the way she thinks. I wouldn't doubt that's the way she votes, too.Probably. Emotion doesn't explain the ignorance she displayed, concerning the nature and history of the government, in which she is participating.

[Bright Life]

It's a reasonable explanation to be upset. It's not a reasonable excuse for being an idiot.

[His Noodly Appendage]

I see it as a nasty dig dressed up as an apology.

"Oh, I'm so sorry I said things about atheists, I was just upset over the last school shooting which was all their fault..."

[slumtrimpet]

I see it as a nasty dig dressed up as an apology.

"Oh, I'm so sorry I said things about atheists, I was just upset over the last school shooting which was all their fault..."
Ayup.
Reasonable to be upset, completely out of line to try and blame it on atheism. If that's the sum total of her 'apology' then it's crap. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt only because newspaper accounts are unreliable and Sherman actually said her explanation was 'reasonable' (according to the unreliable news account)

[crazyfingers]

I'd need to see more than is in the news account before I'd be willing to accept an apology. What was reported on was completely inadequate.

[PostMortem]

It sounds even worse when you hear it on audio:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW6sRUuVVSY&feature=related

We all know what would have happened to her if she'd directed that outburst at a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or at another Christian. An apology wouldn't have been good enough, without a doubt she would have been forced to resign, but it's 'mostly' OK if you say those things to an atheist.

[AthenaAwakened]

I'd need to see more than is in the news account before I'd be willing to accept an apology. What was reported on was completely inadequate.

I know it's hard to do but the answer is ORGANIZATION.

The problem with that is, it's hard to organize people with really only one thing is common and that one thing is NOT believing in something.

Vocal Organized groups put "the fear of god" into politicians

[crazyfingers]

I'd need to see more than is in the news account before I'd be willing to accept an apology. What was reported on was completely inadequate.

I know it's hard to do but the answer is ORGANIZATION.

The problem with that is, it's hard to organize people with really only one thing is common and that one thing is NOT believing in something.

Vocal Organized groups put "the fear of god" into politicians

I agree. But sometimes freethinker/non-believer groups remind me of the scene in Life of Brian when The People Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front kill each other. Not so drastic but...

A lot of atheists really don't like the style of American Atheists and would never cooperate with them. And I note that American Atheists isn't a member of the Secular Coalition for America (http://www.secular.org/)

IIDB and RnR seem to be in a cold war...

Sad...

[AthenaAwakened]

That's the crux of the matter, isn't it?

There are so many ideologies encompassed under the umbrella Atheist or Non Believer or Nontheist or Agnostic (See, we can even agree on what name to use), getting them to come together for even a brief period is like pulling teeth.

But we have got to get over ourselves. I think this is our time. We make our presence known now and maybe we can stop having to reinvent the wheel every generation.

[crazyfingers]

I'm with you on that AthenaAwakened. Really.

But the question is how?

For example, big time atheist author, Christopher Hitchens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens) really pisses a lot off people off with his neo-con ideas.

And then there's Larry Darby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Darby) and his Holocaust denial. Fortunately, he seems to be fading away...

But as you say, nonbelievers are not united except in their nonbelief.

[kiwimac]

You know simply believing in a God does not bar you from public service nor should it. That Muslims wish to serve both their own religious communities and wider ones as well is an excellent thing.

[trendkill]

I'm with you on that AthenaAwakened. Really.

But the question is how?

For example, big time atheist author, Christopher Hitchens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens) really pisses a lot off people off with his neo-con ideas.

And then there's Larry Darby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Darby) and his Holocaust denial. Fortunately, he seems to be fading away...

But as you say, nonbelievers are not united except in their nonbelief.I don't understand why we can't unite around what we have in common, that being the fact that there's institutionalized prejudice against us based on the fact that we don't believe in any god or 'higher power'. Since that's what we're hated for, it shouldn't matter if we don't have anything else in common ideologically. What we have in common is we're human beings who have the same problem and we could probably diminish that problem if we worked together to solve it. :dunno:

[AthenaAwakened]

I'm with you on that AthenaAwakened. Really.

But the question is how?

For example, big time atheist author, Christopher Hitchens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens) really pisses a lot off people off with his neo-con ideas.

And then there's Larry Darby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Darby) and his Holocaust denial. Fortunately, he seems to be fading away...

But as you say, nonbelievers are not united except in their nonbelief.I don't understand why we can't unite around what we have in common, that being the fact that there's institutionalized prejudice against us based on the fact that we don't believe in any god or 'higher power'. Since that's what we're hated for, it shouldn't matter if we don't have anything else in common ideologically. What we have in common is we're human beings who have the same problem and we could probably diminish that problem if we worked together to solve it. :dunno:

I'm not saying it will be impossible, just hard as hell and will require people working together who, other than sharing "oppression" (please note the scare quotes before writing angry letters, thank you), hate each other's political, economic, social, philosophical, etc. beliefs.

[Arctish]

Moving from Politics to Secular Issues in keeping with the flow of the conversation.

Arctish
P moderator

[Bright Life]

Organization means having to actually agree on something else than not being superstitious.

[tjakey]

You know simply believing in a God does not bar you from public service nor should it. That Muslims wish to serve both their own religious communities and wider ones as well is an excellent thing.

Are you sure about that? My suspicion is that Muslims have less of a desire to “serve” the wider community then they do to subvert the wider community and eventually subject it to Islamic rule. There is not much room for democracy in any mono-theism, and Islam certainly seems to be the most strident of the mono-theisms at the moment.

[trendkill]

Organization means having to actually agree on something else than not being superstitious.Like "being discriminated against for not being superstitious is a bad thing and we should do something about it", maybe.

[Bright Life]

Organization means having to actually agree on something else than not being superstitious.Like "being discriminated against for not being superstitious is a bad thing and we should do something about it", maybe.

I agree, FWIW.