Homeschoolers Who Don´t Learn Science Shouldn´t Receive a Diploma

[Constant Mews]

The education of children is essential to the survival and positive progress of human society. Children should be taught (ideally by qualified, credentialed instructors) to read and write, to understand the basic principles of mathematics, and to understand and appreciate the beauty and complexity of the natural world through science. If you also want to teach your child about salvation through Jesus Christ, or the flood of Noah, go for it. You have, and should always have, that freedom. It´s the birthright of every human being.

A high school diploma, on the other hand, isn't a birthright. It's something that must be earned. The states have the right and the responsibility to award those diplomas only to students who have adequately completed their education. That group should not include anyone whose science studies omit evolutionary biology and include a credulous literal reading of the Bible. Those students—be they homeschoolers or attendees of religious private schools—have been cheated, and before they get to graduate, their misguided teachers should have to make good. from Steve Shives interesting recent article (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/57938) in the American Chronicle. I think his position has a great deal of relevance to some of our more recent discussions regarding the nature of science education in this country. Any opinions?

[His Noodly Appendage]

Well, yes.

You're telling me you can currently get official bits of paper without sitting official exams?!

That's all kinds of fucked up.

[Ana H]

Those students—be they home schoolers or attendees of religious private schools—have been cheated, and before they get to graduate, their misguided teachers should have to make good.


Do not single out just Home school students in your thread title, the article states that this should be so for religious school students as well. I think MOST home school parents on this board would agree with this 100%.

the best Science and Biology courses I have found as a semi home school parent are in universities where they offer some Jr/Sr High School courses. Many across the country do offer science, Math, and English Lit. As a home school student reaches Jr/Sr high, they can enroll in these courses. Unfortunately, most Xtian home school students do not take advantage of this. In our state, you sign a waiver that if you home school, you do not hold the state responsible if your child is not educated, or undereducated. The home school students do not receive a diploma from the state unless the get their GED, or go to university sponsored jr/sr High school. They are not REQUIRED to show anything to Department of Education. My son has a complete portfolio we keep on his work. Is there a state who actually gives diplomas to home school students? I have never heard of one.

At the private Catholic School my niece attends, they do teach evolutionary biology in the higher grades. Maybe they are the exception?

[Lucretius III]

At the private Catholic School my niece attends, they do teach evolutionary biology in the higher grades. Maybe they are the exception?

For a long time now Catholic schools have had no problem at all in teaching evolutionary biology ,in fact it is accepted by the Catholic church as the best explanantion we have, here in the UK the C of E schools teach evolutionary biology as well ,it is only a very small number of "academies" or "Vardy Schools " * funded by fundamentialists that teach otherwise.
I went to a Catholic Grammar School and as far as a good education in arts and sciences went, I had a very good general education,they wisely kept the religious aspects in religion lessons and did not allow it to influence their teaching on the more "materialistic subjects" at all.

*"Vardy Schools" (http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,,1389937,00.html)

From the above link
Most notoriously, Vardy schools accord equal importance to both creationism and theories of evolution. According to McQuoid, though state schools are required to teach evolutionary theory, "also, schools should teach the creation theory as literally depicted in Genesis". The 300-year reign of the enlightenment apparently counts for very little: in his view, creation and evolution are both "faith positions".

[Cath B]

*"Vardy Schools" (http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,,1389937,00.html)

From the above link
Most notoriously, Vardy schools accord equal importance to both creationism and theories of evolution. According to McQuoid, though state schools are required to teach evolutionary theory, "also, schools should teach the creation theory as literally depicted in Genesis". The 300-year reign of the enlightenment apparently counts for very little: in his view, creation and evolution are both "faith positions".

I've just been reading about these schools whilst rereading Dawkin's The God Delusion.

In Scotland the Science Curriculum up till the end of Secondary 2 (age 13/14) does not appear to include Evolutionary Theory. It is part of the Standard Grade Biology Curriculum, but this is an optional subject.

STOP PRESS: I was just googling to confirm the accuracy of the previous sentence when I came upon this (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1477583.0.0.php?act=complaint&cid=411287):-

NTELLIGENT DESIGN, a controversial alternative theory to evolution, could become part of the science curriculum in Scottish schools.

The Sunday Herald has learned that the Scottish Qualifications Authority (SQA) is considering provision for the theory as part of a review of the science course curriculum.

Intelligent design (ID) is one of a wide range of theories of origin currently taught as part of the Religious, Moral and Philosophy Studies (RMPS) SQA course, but could be moved elsewhere as part of the review. A spokesman for the SQA said: "It happens to sit in RMPS just now. If and when it does becomes part of the curriculum for science, which it may well do as part of this review, then that's where it could sit."

:eek::eek::eek:

[Lucretius III]

From the article Cath B posted (My highlights)

Michael McGrath, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Service, made it clear intelligent design was not part of science teaching in Catholic schools. He said: "There is a distinction between what is appropriate for religious education and what is appropriate for science. We wouldn't confuse one with the other."


At times I still find it amazing that it is the Catholic Church that is "more scienitific" in these matters.

[Febble]

From the article Cath B posted (My highlights)

Michael McGrath, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Service, made it clear intelligent design was not part of science teaching in Catholic schools. He said: "There is a distinction between what is appropriate for religious education and what is appropriate for science. We wouldn't confuse one with the other."


At times I still find it amazing that it is the Catholic Church that is "more scienitific" in these matters.

Well, more canny. They've had their fingers burnt before.

[Bright Life]

Is there a state who actually gives diplomas to home school students? I have never heard of one.

Not technically homeschooling, but Florida has a Virtual High School that allows students to earn a diploma at home.

[Ana H]

Is there a state who actually gives diplomas to home school students? I have never heard of one.

Not technically homeschooling, but Florida has a Virtual High School that allows students to earn a diploma at home.

Virtual schools are not considered home school in our state. I am really surprised what my 14 year old son is doing it considered home school in Arkansas. It would seem to me that it would be more of a parent guided accelerated learning through college courses. I do admit that it is defiantly home school that I do with my elementary kiddos.


At times I still find it amazing that it is the Catholic Church that is "more scientific" in these matters

ditto. my husband was catholic in a former life until I knocked him sensible with science books. I was always amazed at the things that they believed, and did. Seems more like superstition to me.

[ck1]

From the article Cath B posted (My highlights)

Michael McGrath, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Service, made it clear intelligent design was not part of science teaching in Catholic schools. He said: "There is a distinction between what is appropriate for religious education and what is appropriate for science. We wouldn't confuse one with the other."


At times I still find it amazing that it is the Catholic Church that is "more scienitific" in these matters.

I went to a Catholic high school. We learned evolution. Creationism was briefly mentioned on the first day of that unit as a discredited concept that was also not consistent with Catholic theology.

I majored in biology at a Catholic college and evolution was treated in all courses as the unifying principle.

As a profession biologist I have collaborated with scientists at 2 Catholic universities on projects that had evolutionary implications.

Catholics have traditionally supported rigorous education.

And really, you will find the same thing at universities run by many other Christian denominations like Baylor (Baptist) and Brigham Young.

(Then, of course, there are the conservative Christian schools like Patrick Henry, Liberty, Bob Jones, etc.)

[llanitedave]

Much as I agree with what's posted above, I'd also have to say that a good percentage of those who attend public high schools should never receive diplomas, either.

[VoxRat]

Much as I agree with what's posted above, I'd also have to say that a good percentage of those who attend public high schools should never receive diplomas, either.
Amen
sorry,
Hail Darwin!

[ck1]

I always thought that in most if not all US states, students were required to stay in school until age 16. However, Amish kids are not educated beyond the 8th grade (~age 13). Why are they exempt? Are children who are members of other religious groups also exempt from what are otherwise standard requirements?

[Notta_skeptic]

I always thought that in most if not all US states, students were required to stay in school until age 16. However, Amish kids are not educated beyond the 8th grade (~age 13). Why are they exempt? Are children who are members of other religious groups also exempt from what are otherwise standard requirements?
The Amish have an extra-special exemption. After 8th grade or age 13, they begin working full-time for their families. The Amish schools do not give out diplomas, the Amish children do not attend college, and the government has agreed to allow their children to live their lives according to a very specific religious doctrine.

Home-schooled children can drop out whenever their parents give their agreement after age 16. Since home schools run the gamut of every kind of program, there is no overall religious exemption.

I wonder, though, how the FLDS group in Texas got past state requirements for schooling their children when they forced girls as young as 12 and 13 to get married, and forced boys to begin working as laborers at the same ages. Maybe they had a religious exemption, too. (Although I think it was because the state didn't want to check too closely on what was happening out there.)

[Lucretius III]

From the article Cath B posted (My highlights)

Michael McGrath, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Service, made it clear intelligent design was not part of science teaching in Catholic schools. He said: "There is a distinction between what is appropriate for religious education and what is appropriate for science. We wouldn't confuse one with the other."


At times I still find it amazing that it is the Catholic Church that is "more scienitific" in these matters.

I went to a Catholic high school. We learned evolution. Creationism was briefly mentioned on the first day of that unit as a discredited concept that was also not consistent with Catholic theology.

I majored in biology at a Catholic college and evolution was treated in all courses as the unifying principle.

As a profession biologist I have collaborated with scientists at 2 Catholic universities on projects that had evolutionary implications.

Catholics have traditionally supported rigorous education.

And really, you will find the same thing at universities run by many other Christian denominations like Baylor (Baptist) and Brigham Young.

(Then, of course, there are the conservative Christian schools like Patrick Henry, Liberty, Bob Jones, etc.)

As I said above I went to a Catholic Grammar School (when we still had them ), run by an order of Catholic Brothers, so you can't get much more "religious and Catholic" than that and had a good general education including the ToE in biology lessons, for which I am grateful, and I was shocked that Creationism/ID is even considered to be any sort of equivalent to the teaching of real science anywhere like the USA.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Am I the only one that finds it fucking disgusting that children are denied the right to an education, on the basis of their parents' religion?

Sorry, but once you're a legal adult, you can fuck up your life as much as you want. Until then, the state has a responsibility to see that they're provided with the same rights as anyone else.

[Magdlyn]

... I was shocked that Creationism/ID is even considered to be any sort of equivalent to the teaching of real science anywhere like the USA.

The USA has a big swathe of poverty stricken states in the South where there is absolutely no money for the schools. Ppl are horribly undereducated. (for ex: One of the charities American Idol was raising money for this week was a program to buy books for kids in Kentucky.)

It's self-perpetuating. No money, poor education, more likely to be fundamentalist xian/Baptist, and to believe in the Bible literally and to support ID as science and push for it to be taught in schools.

[Theropod]

Virtual schools are not considered home school in our state. I am really surprised what my 14 year old son is doing it considered home school in Arkansas. It would seem to me that it would be more of a parent guided accelerated learning through college courses. I do admit that it is defiantly home school that I do with my elementary kiddos.

Ana,

I also reside in Arkansas, in Stone county. Glad to see another hog here!

[Fathermithras]

I know that Florida Virtual School is supposed to follow state curriculum. I'm almost positive of it, but it has been a while. Isn't online school regulated?

[Notta_skeptic]

I know that Florida Virtual School is supposed to follow state curriculum. I'm almost positive of it, but it has been a while. Isn't online school regulated?
While the curriculum of an online school is regulated, whether the student completes the curriculum can be up to the parent.

Some are rigorous when it comes to monitoring a student's work and pacing. Some are so much the opposite that it's up to the student/parent to submit the work, and if it is not submitted, nothing is done.

The Florida Virtual School is the former - there is much monitoring done of the students (if I remember correctly). My nephew, however, attended a virtual school for three and a half years. At the end of that time, he was two years behind his peers in terms of subjects studied and credit earned. The school never commented to my sister about his lack of progress (they got their money regardless of whether he even finished one course), and my sister took her son's word that he had finished his work and was doing well.

Virtual schools are regulated by the state in which they are physically located. Since this is often hard to tell, the standards and requirements also vary by state. As with any new enterprise, some are excellent and some are worse than the worst public schools. It pays to be an informed customer.