Richard Carrier: Calling All Benefactors

[lpetrich]

Note: as a result of second thoughts, I've deleted my OP out of concern that it may be considered spam; it was a copy of this RnR post on this subject (http://www.rantsnraves.org/showthread.php?t=9482).

[Pavlov's Dog]

If it is spam here, then how come it is not spam at RnR? I didn't know that RnR had a different definition of spam?

[Febble]

If it is spam here, then how come it is not spam at RnR? I didn't know that RnR had a different definition of spam?

Well, spam is stuff posted en masse, ie. to several recipients/several sites, no?

So what might make it spam here is that it is already on RnR.

(Not that I think it is, in fact - I think a bit of cross-posting is fine).

[Rathpig]

I am cross-posting this from RnR on the topic, but it is a non-profit editorial so it isn't "spam":

Fuck Richard Carrier.

This begging bullshit, which smacks strongly of the Rational Response Scam, is poor fucking scholarship. He should do like every other student with debt and suck it up, get a job, and quit begging. Why do these cock-suckers think they can pimp the "atheist community" for their living. If Carrier is worth a shit, he can get a publication advance for his book.

At this point he seems to be only a slightly more educated version of Rook Hawkins.


And lpetrich why are you the town crier for these scammers?

[Nialler]

TBH, I can see that the call for funds for Carrier is spam.

It's a very odd piece of work. He's 20K in debt as he finishes his doctorate - a debt which is pretty moderate by any standards for a graduate completing their studies. The plea comes with a promise that if the money is raised he will write a book on the Jesus/Myth subject. What does that mean? If he doesn't get the money that he'll write a book on the Jesus/Historical figure position?

It seems that he wants to do some reading also - which seems rich if his mythicism position is already on the record. What if he reads something that goes against the thread of the book that he has promised to write for his supporters?

In short, it seems like a shameful way for an academic to get by. It begs the question as to how a book written under those circumstances could have any credibility at all, and how the funding for it would be analysed. Think of an "independent" study showing that cigarettes do not carry any risk of cancer. Think how that study would be reappraised if it turned out that the study had been funded by Benson & Hedges. To ask for supporters of his work to fund that type of book is to render the book valueless before it is born and to reduce his own reputation.

From an academic it's a very shabby appeal. I seriously hope that he will reconsider it.

Study costs. We all absorb that cost and repay it as we begin to earn. He has no special case for being immune to these costs - and should certainly not be tying a piece of academic work to having those funds to get him out of debt.

It's ill-considered.

[Dlx2]

I remember saying, about two months ago, he was a two-bit hack of a student.

Look at me. Look at how right I was.

[Nialler]

I said it the day before you did. Whenever that was. So there.

[DMB]

I have read a bit of his stuff and consider it terminally boring. If you want to read a worthwhile atheist philosopher, read Prof. A.C. Grayling. I'm just in the middle of a cracking book he published last year, Toward the Light of Liberty: The Struggles for Freedom and Rights That Made the Modern Western World (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-1742362-3484167?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=A+C+Grayling&x=18&y=18). He writes incredibly clearly; not the prolix, turgid stuff that Carrier turns out. I would recommend any of his books.

[Nialler]

I've read him. Quite the writer. Well worth reading.

[Apostasius]

So is Carrier seeking to become the atheist version of Robert Turkel?

[Pavlov's Dog]

I am cross-posting this from RnR on the topic, but it is a non-profit editorial so it isn't "spam":

Good point. I will do it too, because not everybody goes to both forums.

You know what, instead of giving this douche some money. How about instead, you donate to a worthwhile cause:

http://www.rantsnraves.org/showthread.php?t=9130&highlight=lupus

This is actually one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard of. He didn't happen to post this on April 1, did he?

Another thing, is this really something important enough for people to donate money to? This is like a hobby or a personal interest. Even if you are an atheism activist, why would you care? It is not like having convincing evidence that Christ was a myth would change anything. Most liberal Christians don't need a literal Christ for their faith, and the fundamentalists manage to ignore evidence no matter how convincing. It reeks of a scam.

[Rathpig]

So is Carrier seeking to become the atheist version of Robert Turkel?

I've think Brian "Sapient" Cutler may desire the J.P. Holding/Robert Turkel role more than Carrier. I guess they could get drunk on webcam and arm wrestle for it.

[AthenaAwakened]

With atheist books being the hottest things in publishing right now, you would think that Carrier would have no problem selling the idea for a book and getting considerably more than $20,000 in an advance.

Just a thought.

[Rathpig]

With atheist books being the hottest things in publishing right now, you would think that Carrier would have no problem selling the idea for a book and getting considerably more than $20,000 in an advance.

Just a thought.

I hate to be a "skeptic" because it seems unwelcome sometimes in the atheist "community", but I could see him doing both. In fact the situation is damn strange.

1). If he is a PhD candidate with a completed dissertation, why isn't his university supporting him? This is a common method for such a publication from a doctoral candidate.

2). If the book is viable, why isn't a publisher supporting him? Any publisher could recover $20,000 off even limited sales.

3). How is public begging to push a preconceived notion even close to scholarship?



Personally, I've never found Carrier to be a very inspired writer. He seems competent, but nothing to recommend him. His work at Internet Infidels is good enough though that it would seem to translate into at least a minor publication contract. This whiny emo shit about "pay my bills or I can't publish this book" smacks too close to his Rational Response Squad buddies for my taste. Fuck him and his $20,000 pony.

[lpetrich]

I guess I won't be posting in full about RC's proposal unless the mods here say it's OK.

But what RC wants to write is a book about historical methods that may reasonably be applied to the historical-Jesus problem. Stuff like evaluating Lord Raglan's Mythic-Hero profile for use in historicity research. I personally think that it needs some clarification and revision, like counting child-prodigy stories and prophecy fulfillment.

He claims that if he gets some lame temp job somewhere, then it would not be as valuable as such a book.

[Per Ahlberg]

Look at me. Look at how right I was.



*crickets*

[Pavlov's Dog]

He claims that if he gets some lame temp job somewhere, then it would not be as valuable as such a book.

No shit. But why should anybody care what is more valuable to him, besides him and his family?

[Rathpig]

He claims that if he gets some lame temp job somewhere, then it would not be as valuable as such a book.

He sucks at planning his short-term PhD strategy and is begging the internet to pay for an extended holiday. I read his blog.

Fuck Richard Carrier.

If he doesn't have a position lined up with his university then he is a dumb-ass. He almost deserves to work at Office Depot. Let him take a TA slot and beg in private. He is rather lucky he has been supported thus far. The arrogance of saying that somehow it would be more valuable for him to pimp out a book is astonishing. Many people work in one area to pursue their goals in others.

The sun shines not from his ass.

[Per Ahlberg]

Many people work in one area to pursue their goals in others.
No shit. Lars Ramsköld, for many years one of the most prominent Swedish palaeontologists and with an excellent publication record, was a dentist.

[Dlx2]

With atheist books being the hottest things in publishing right now, you would think that Carrier would have no problem selling the idea for a book and getting considerably more than $20,000 in an advance.

Just a thought.

I hate to be a "skeptic" because it seems unwelcome sometimes in the atheist "community", but I could see him doing both. In fact the situation is damn strange.

1). If he is a PhD candidate with a completed dissertation, why isn't his university supporting him? This is a common method for such a publication from a doctoral candidate.

2). If the book is viable, why isn't a publisher supporting him? Any publisher could recover $20,000 off even limited sales.

3). How is public begging to push a preconceived notion even close to scholarship?



Personally, I've never found Carrier to be a very inspired writer. He seems competent, but nothing to recommend him. His work at Internet Infidels is good enough though that it would seem to translate into at least a minor publication contract. This whiny emo shit about "pay my bills or I can't publish this book" smacks too close to his Rational Response Squad buddies for my taste. Fuck him and his $20,000 pony.

Finally, he's in the final stages of his PhD? Many professional organizations provide fellowships that support students during the final semester or so of their dissertation, to allow them to focus on their thesis.

[Dreadnought]

I can understand the reasoning behind him making a plea like this (though I haven't actually read what he wrote in it). Jesus Mythicism is a beast with a long and dubious history on and off the fringes of acceptability and, even while bearing in mind that the mainstream is christian or sympathetic to christianity in this area, that situation makes authoring such a book a risky endeavour in that he jeoparizes his future reputation. At the very least he gets labelled "controversial" which may or may not harm his future career.

The purpose of the book would more likely be to give more academic credibility to Jesus mythicism, rather than setting out to "prove" that Jesus is mythical, a task that is not only impossible, but would also leave him wide open to the criticisms raised here and more. More practically he has also been paid before (for analysing Doherty's book) and so he already knows that there are people willing to pay, most of those people still being at iidb I presume.

I have no intention of sponsoring him, but to me the venomous reactions in this thread appear so out of proportion to what is proposed that I wonder if there are other axes to grind here.

[Rathpig]

I have no intention of sponsoring him, but to me the venomous reactions in this thread appear so out of proportion to what is proposed that I wonder if there are other axes to grind here.

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2008/04/calling-all-benefactors.html


I didn't react until I read the blog post.

He could have been a bit more "academic" in his plea. I have no specific problem in theory with him asking for financial help to publish a book, but he is intentionally bypassing numerous outlets to solicit like an evangelist. He also seems to think he is above the same struggles made by almost everyone who pursues an academic field. Somehow Richard Carrier is too good to take a TA position or a *gasp* actual job for a few months prior to gaining a university position. He is begging for a months long paid holiday.

This is the same hubris, ego, and unearned arrogance that makes the Rational Response Squad, Carrier's personal fan club, a group of wankers. Carrier is following suit and even claiming J.P. Holding as a desire model for funding.