Please Vote: Should we have a Secular Issues and Support forum?

[Pendaric]

http://www.talkrational.org/showthread.php?t=1405

Proposal by crazyfingers, who is prepared to moderate it.

Again, something I feel we don't cover which would be appreciated by many.

[Bright Life]

I always thought that there was a fine line between this and "loungey" stuff. I haven't voted, though. I'd like to hear more.

[Pendaric]

To me, loungey stuff is the less serious, light hearted threads. This would be heavier in tone and would focus on the same sort of stuff as SL over at II.

It's a more logical home for deconversion support threads, church/state separation threads, interactions with religion threads etc. It's not for happy birthday threads, new puppy threads, how my day's been threads etc. which are what I see as meat and drink for lounge.

[Quizalufagus]

Doesn't that sort of inter-topical, relatively heavy stuff go in general discussion?

[RBH]

Doesn't that sort of inter-topical, relatively heavy stuff go in general discussion?Well, the description of General Discussions is essentially "Other," which says there's no particular focus at all. I can see a forum aimed specifically at secular issues like those Pendaric mentioned.

[Pendaric]

Doesn't that sort of inter-topical, relatively heavy stuff go in general discussion?

At the moment I think it's split between a few forums. On a messageboard aimed at the secular community I think it's a big enough standalone topic to merit it's own forum.

A lot of people, myself included, got started at II because they had this sort of specialised support forum.

[Christina]

We can try it and shut it down again if it sits there empty most of the time.

[Febble]

To me, loungey stuff is the less serious, light hearted threads. This would be heavier in tone and would focus on the same sort of stuff as SL over at II.

It's a more logical home for deconversion support threads, church/state separation threads, interactions with religion threads etc. It's not for happy birthday threads, new puppy threads, how my day's been threads etc. which are what I see as meat and drink for lounge.

And in any case, it's a Nest not a Lounge.

I'm not sure I'd want to deconvert in a Nest (for the reasons you state). In fact one of the reasons I didn't go in the Lounge much on IIDB was that I wasn't sure I was really Allowed. And if people were seriously deconverting around the place, I'd feel a bit bad whingeing about my broken foot.

And if I were seriously deconverting, I wouldn't want to be tripping over someone whingeing over a broken foot.

So I agree.

[Quizalufagus]

At the moment I think it's split between a few forums. On a messageboard aimed at the secular community I think it's a big enough standalone topic to merit it's own forum.

A lot of people, myself included, got started at II because they had this sort of specialised support forum.

Are we aimed at the secular community? My understanding is that our target audience is freethinkers, and that's not exactly the same thing.

I don't have any objections to trying out such a forum if there is demand, though. My only concern is that a secular life forum would have the potential to become an atheist clubhouse, and I believe that having such a clubhouse would run counter to many of the broader purposes of TR (i.e., rational debate and discussion).

[Pendaric]

We're not exclusive to the secular community by any means, but by the nature of where people have got here from this is a de facto secular board. I'd guess at least 90% of our membership have got here via other secular forums.

It does become a bit of an atheist clubhouse, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in that particular forum, IMO.

Were you familiar with the SL forum at II Quiz?

[ravenscape]

I'm a little concerned about having the CSS/Activism discussions/debates in the same forum with more supportive deconversion/secular living threads. If we go this route, we'll need to keep a close eye on the general health of all these topics in the same forum.

[Pendaric]

To me, loungey stuff is the less serious, light hearted threads. This would be heavier in tone and would focus on the same sort of stuff as SL over at II.

It's a more logical home for deconversion support threads, church/state separation threads, interactions with religion threads etc. It's not for happy birthday threads, new puppy threads, how my day's been threads etc. which are what I see as meat and drink for lounge.

And in any case, it's a Nest not a Lounge.

I'm not sure I'd want to deconvert in a Nest (for the reasons you state). In fact one of the reasons I didn't go in the Lounge much on IIDB was that I wasn't sure I was really Allowed. And if people were seriously deconverting around the place, I'd feel a bit bad whingeing about my broken foot.

And if I were seriously deconverting, I wouldn't want to be tripping over someone whingeing over a broken foot.

So I agree.

So vote woman, dammit!

[Febble]

To me, loungey stuff is the less serious, light hearted threads. This would be heavier in tone and would focus on the same sort of stuff as SL over at II.

It's a more logical home for deconversion support threads, church/state separation threads, interactions with religion threads etc. It's not for happy birthday threads, new puppy threads, how my day's been threads etc. which are what I see as meat and drink for lounge.

And in any case, it's a Nest not a Lounge.

I'm not sure I'd want to deconvert in a Nest (for the reasons you state). In fact one of the reasons I didn't go in the Lounge much on IIDB was that I wasn't sure I was really Allowed. And if people were seriously deconverting around the place, I'd feel a bit bad whingeing about my broken foot.

And if I were seriously deconverting, I wouldn't want to be tripping over someone whingeing over a broken foot.

So I agree.

So vote woman, dammit!

Sorry.

[Octavia]

I'm all for it - it's something we're missing, IMO.

[Quizalufagus]

We're not exclusive to the secular community by any means, but by the nature of where people have got here from this is a de facto secular board. I'd guess at least 90% of our membership have got here via other secular forums.

It does become a bit of an atheist clubhouse, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in that particular forum, IMO.

Were you familiar with the SL forum at II Quiz?

Vaguely so. It struck me as something of an atheist clubhouse. :p That isn't necessarily inappropriate for IIDB, by the way--their mission is to promote metaphysical naturalism after all. Ours is not, however, and I believe that setting up clubhouses suggests an official endorsement of certain points of view. That road is potentially a very disturbing one to go down.

[RBH]

Ours is not, however, and I believe that setting up clubhouses suggests an official endorsement of certain points of view. That road is potentially a very disturbing one to go down.Erm, the very name of the board -- TalkRational! -- is an "official endorsement of a certain point of view." And it doesn't disturb me in the least.

[Quizalufagus]

Well, yes, we do endorse rationality. There's a world of difference between endorsing rationality and endorsing a specific (and potentially controversial) topical stance, however.

Next thing you know we'll be endorsing metaphysical naturalism. :p

[His Noodly Appendage]

And if I were seriously deconverting, I wouldn't want to be tripping over someone whingeing over a broken foot.

Indeed. You might... break...

Sorry, sorry.

Voted yes.

[Febble]

It's "General Discussion" that I find a bit de trop.

I could see its point if it were in the Discussion section, but I'm not sure what's supposed to go in it, and when I do find interesting things in it, I can never find them again, because I forget that they are in this thing called General Discussion.

If we want to curb the creeping spread of extra forums, I wouldn't mind if that one were axed. Not that there's anything wrong with the content, just that it could all be better catalogued elsewhere. Maybe.

[RexT]

This is a tough issue for me. Like Quiz, I'm hesitant to officially endorse a topical viewpoint. Yet, it's pretty clear that the vast majority of TR members relate to secularism. Also, TR provides a separate forum for Religions and it seems clear that TR does not officially endorse religion. So it should also be clear that by merely having a separate "Secular Issues" forum, TR is not officially endorsing secularism either. I believe TR's endorsements have mostly been provided in the "Statement of Purpose (http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?t=1415)".

My only caveat is that the Religions forum isn't also billed as a support forum and I'm cautious about billing the Secular Issues forum as a support forum. If rational talk isn't enough support for a secular viewpoint, I wonder what more is needed.

With the one caveat, I vote yes.

[His Noodly Appendage]

98% of the people here are from II or its derivatives. I think it's fairly clear that, despite conspicuously leaving any mention of religion or its lack out of the name of the place, this is an atheist forum - or at the very least, a forum dedicated to exploring the theism/non-theism border.

[RexT]

98% of the people here are from II or its derivatives. I think it's fairly clear that, despite conspicuously leaving any mention of religion or its lack out of the name of the place, this is an atheist forum - or at the very least, a forum dedicated to exploring the theism/non-theism border.Really, and I though it was a freethought forum. Are you saying that the only supporters of freethought are atheists?

[His Noodly Appendage]

No, just the only practitioners :p

[RexT]

Well, I don't usually feel the need to label myself as either theist, agnostic, atheist or whatever except if pressed into taking a stand. And if so pressed I won't call myself an atheist, and you'd have a time arguing that I don't support freethought, especially since the caption under our logo was written by me. And especially since even now I'm arguing in favor of freethought.

I can't really tell, but if you're just joking thats fine. But if you are serious, you need to retract.

[umop apisdn w,I]

I voted Yes - although I also agree with Febble that perhaps General Discussions could be folded into The Rats' Nest. We don't have enough traffic yet in my opinion to warrant splitting "lighthearted stuff" from "general chat". It's not as if either forum is moving too fast to keep up with.

[Febble]

No, just the only practitioners :p

Well, that's it, innit.

:p

[His Noodly Appendage]

Rex: I was mostly joking, though I'm happy for a little barb to stay in the tail.

First, you seem to be misparsing the difference between 'support' and 'practice'.

I 'support' world cup football. I admire it, and if I had an opportunity to promote it, I would do so. However, my physical fitness and coordination are abysmal. I suck at football.

The two statements are in no way mutually exclusive.

Obviously, being a hardcore skeptic and atheist, I believe that theism is an untenable position. And since the only way an untenable position can be supported is via bad epistemology, it follows that I think that all theists suck at epistemology, no matter how much they value the good stuff in principle.

[Arctish]

I'm in favor of adding a Secular Issues forum. I think we could do a lot more to broaden our appeal by discussing subjects like the Danish Mohammed cartoons, Falun Gong, christian proselytizers protected by the US military in Iraq, etc. I don't think we need to tie in the Support aspect but I don't particularly object to it either.

[dug_down_deep]

I believe the community would appreciate this forum, so I vote yes.

P.S. As a secular agnostic/part-time theist, I fully support a secular support forum, since I hate religion's pernicious influences as much as any atheist I've ever met, and I am just as relieved to escape them as anyone.

[Quizalufagus]

Why isn't there an option to officially abstain, anyhow? I'd like it to be noted that I abstained.

[ravenscape]

Why isn't there an option to officially abstain, anyhow? I'd like it to be noted that I abstained.
I added an abstain option.

[Quizalufagus]

Thanks.

[Pendaric]

15 votes for means we are past the 60% mark, so this proposal is passed.

[Matty]

98% of the people here are from II or its derivatives. I think it's fairly clear that, despite conspicuously leaving any mention of religion or its lack out of the name of the place, this is an atheist forum - or at the very least, a forum dedicated to exploring the theism/non-theism border.Really, and I though it was a freethought forum. Are you saying that the only supporters of freethought are atheists?

No, just the only practitioners :p
Snap. :)
I'm an aye.