Atheist soldier claims harassment

[crazyfingers]

Atheist soldier claims harassment (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/26/atheist.soldier.ap/index.html)


Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

...

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

Hall said he had had enough but feared he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

...

Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed on September 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kansas. Other soldiers learned of it and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.

The Army told him it couldn't protect him and sent him back to Fort Riley. He resumed duties with a military police battalion. He believes his promotion to sergeant has been blocked because of his lawsuit, but he is a team leader responsible for two junior enlisted soldiers.

...continues



This chase has been brewing for a while. Looks like it may finally be moving forward.

[shipload]

And what's the latest news from the Air Farce Academy in Colorado Springs?

[crazyfingers]

The Larger picture.

Fighting For God And Country
Sunday Morning: Are Service Members Discriminated Against By Evangelists Within The U.S. Military? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/27/sunday/main4048492.shtml)

When it comes to the role of religion in the military, a famous saying from World War II seems to sum things up:

"There are no atheists in foxholes."

Immortalized in the 1942 film "Wake Island," the line reinforces the idea that there' s just nothing quite like bombs and bullets to convert a non-believer.

Whoever decided that owes Jeremy Hall an apology.

.... continues

It also goes on to mention the new film CONSTANTINE’S SWORD (http://constantinessword.com/) by saying The Air Force Academy discrimination case is the subject of a new documentary, "Constantine's Sword," in which the Academy is characterized as putting their "stamp" on conservative Christian ideology.

There is more mention of the various Air Force cases, a link to prior stories and much discussion of the Millitary Religious Freedom Foundation (http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/) which litigates for separation of church and state in the military.

[Esocyn]

Under what charges would have the major brought upon the soldier? What law is there in the UCMJ that restricts a soldier from "holding a meeting of atheists"?

[Ray Moscow]

And what's the latest news from the Air Farce Academy in Colorado Springs?

One of our regulars at IIDB (and an atheist) is a lecturer there, so maybe she'll chime in if she comes by here.

[diana]

And what's the latest news from the Air Farce Academy in Colorado Springs?

One of our regulars at IIDB (and an atheist) is a lecturer there, so maybe she'll chime in if she comes by here.I'd love to, but the question needs to be more specific.

I did attend a "highly encouraged" briefing a few weeks ago led by Mikey. The panel's point apparently was that expressions of religion in the military (other than the chapel, natch) are used by our enemies to recruit more terrorists to fight a religious war, because they use the media pics of various Christian functions/signs/displays/etc to convince recruits the US is fighting a religious war. It was an interesting thesis, but poorly expressed; the whole briefing came across as an attack on Christians in the military (as an atheist, I cringed). Mikey was an asshole. He even acknowledged this (not quite in those words). I walked away from the briefing loathe to be associated with them in any sense. I was deeply proud of the cadets, on the other hand, who were angry but mature and thoughtful with their questions and treatment of the visitors.

If this is the sort of impression the FFRF (or...the military branch of it, or somesuch) makes on people, I'd rather they don't come back. Even though Mikey and panel all claimed to not be atheists, they are perceived as such, and frankly, I can do without people who make believers think we're all assholes.

d

[Alethias]

If this is the sort of impression the FFRF (or...the military branch of it, or somesuch) makes on people, I'd rather they don't come back. Even though Mikey and panel all claimed to not be atheists, they are perceived as such, and frankly, I can do without people who make believers think we're all assholes.

dHey diana, it's good to see ya :wave:

I know of no connection between the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

IIRC Mikey Weinstein is a Jew both by heritage and faith. As such, my understanding is that his organization is a closer parallel to the ACLU for military members than being a parallel to the FFRF. As such he would be happy to support an atheists desire to assemble and meet with fellow atheists, regardless of his(Mikey's) personal faith. To my understanding, he is more on a crusade to oppose the influence of Far Right Christian Religious Fundamentalism in the branches of the military than opposing religion as a whole.

And yeah, what i've read of him before makes him come across as a bit of an asshole to me too.

Most christians I run into equate 'atheist' with 'god-hater', and from the fundy xtian perspective, Mikey Weinstein personifies that, even though he probably isn't an atheist. He makes me cringe.

[diana]

Hey, Alethias! :)

Yeah. It's an ACLU sort of thing. They said they were there to convince us to keep our religion out of the military because of how it is perceived and used by our enemies, but the opening film clip showed a very atheistic agenda, including the words "Separation of church and state is all smoke and mirrors" a couple of times--a comment which had fuckall to do with their purported thesis.

You'd think a professional activist would make an effort to be reasonable and persuade. Instead, he and at least one other of the panelists seemed intent upon getting a good fight going.

d

[Alethias]

Hey, Alethias! :)

Yeah. It's an ACLU sort of thing. They said they were there to convince us to keep our religion out of the military because of how it is perceived and used by our enemies, but the opening film clip showed a very atheistic agenda, including the words "Separation of church and state is all smoke and mirrors" a couple of times--a comment which had fuckall to do with their purported thesis.

You'd think a professional activist would make an effort to be reasonable and persuade. Instead, he and at least one other of the panelists seemed intent upon getting a good fight going.

dThat sounds to me like they showed up with a chip on their collective shoulder, like they assumed their audience was fundy and that their role in life would be to pick a fight and make people mad.

It's a fucking huge tactical error to prejudge your target like that. From your description is sounds to me like Mikey Weinstein would be not all that palatable for many atheist servicemen. That's pretty nasty. I can't speak for the air force, but at least in the army shoving god down peoples throats was an issue when I was in and I'm told it's worse now. Not a friendly environment for the typical atheist.

At the time I was in I was an outspoken fundamentalist christian, and I never got any flak about my Christianity. The irony of course is that there are Christians that will claim that they get persecuted for their beliefs in the military.

So, if an atheist servicemember needed legal counsel, what would be a proper course of action? I'd have a hard time advising them to go to the MRFF with what you've said here.