Pendaric
08-30-2008, 09:13 AM
ZONE 3: The Zone 3 forum is a special case at TR! It is visible only on application to an admin, who will then put you in the user group that can see the forum. Similarly, application to an admin can remove you from that user group at any time. The only moderation that will take place in Zone 3 concerns posts that put TR! at legal risk, and those that contain malware (viruses, Trojans, etc.) and links to malware. Otherwise, don't bother complaining to staff, we won't care. No posts will be moved into or out of Zone 3. No arguments from Zone 3 will be permitted to spill over into other fora - if you get into an argument with Bob in Zone 3 and insult him because of it in Sciences, staff will not care that you were provoked. If you can't handle it, don't remain the user group.
I want to flag this again because I remain deeply unimpressed by this idea.
My specific objection, which I raised previously but which went pretty much ignored, is this:
What happens when someone who has signed up for the area uses it to spew diatribe about people who haven't signed up?
If poster X doesn't want to get involved in flame wars, but poster Y doesn't like poster X, should we be providing a venue for poster Y to rail at poster X when poster X does not want to be involved in that venue?
You are saying no moderation and no consequences - to me that should only be when the people being attacked have also signed up for that zone. If people are abused who haven't signed up for that zone then that post should be subject to all the normal sanctions.
I'm not happy with, but can just about live with, 2 people who are both going at each other hammer and tongs being allowed to do so without moderation if they both consent to it. I'm utterly opposed to someone being given a free pass to say all the shit they want about someone who hasn't agreed to being in this zone, just because they've moved to a protected area.
Plenty of people on here will not want to be part of this area, nor will they start dishing abuse out. They shouldn't have to think that there is any part of TR which is sanctioned as an area where they can be abused without recourse.
I reproduce our vision statement below. Frankly, I don't really see how this forum fits in to the vision at all, and I would vote against it generally, but I am specifically appalled at the prospect of us officially sanctioning an area where our vision is entirely disregarded and people are free to flame members who do not wish to be involved in this.
This entire concept is forgetting what we are about and opposite to what was envisaged when we first started. This is supposed to be a place which encourages rational, considered discourse, not a place which provides a venue for bullies and abusers to operate unchecked.
If we get an influx of KKK apologists or paedophile apologists are we going to provide them with a separate playpen as well? We do not have to accommodate anyone who does not wish to participate in TR as it was envisaged and as the large majority of members wish it to remain, as any poll taken on the issue shows. This smacks of giving in to a few with loud voices just because they can shout hard.
Tell me how any of this proposal fits in with the concept outlined below, because I am not seeing it at all.
Who are the TalkRats?
This forum was created to serve a community, so it is important to share the defining vision of that community. The community that the founders of this forum envisioned is inclusive of all respectful and thoughtful voices, thriving on a culture that is secular, freethinking, tolerant, outreaching, self-organizing, harmless, inviting, charming, intelligent, progressive, caring, interesting, and fun.
Rational discussion is valued. Respect and dignity are valued, as is the discipline of keeping conversations on track, addressing the subject at hand.
However, it is to be recognized that sometimes discussions can become somewhat robust, and that sometimes a witty or informative aside may be interjected into a discussion, without detracting from a discussion as a whole.
The role of the staff in keeping discussions within reasonable bounds and on-track is discussed below.
People from the non secular community should be made welcome to participate, but they should expect religious and other supernatural views to be subject to close scrutiny.
Statement of Purpose
TR is founded with the mission of service to a growing community of TalkRats. The purpose of TR is to provide a forum where members of the community may have rational discussions on a wide range of topics, without the over interference of abuse and insults, proselytizing, trolling, goading, and other self-serving tactics that do not serve the community as a whole.
I want to flag this again because I remain deeply unimpressed by this idea.
My specific objection, which I raised previously but which went pretty much ignored, is this:
What happens when someone who has signed up for the area uses it to spew diatribe about people who haven't signed up?
If poster X doesn't want to get involved in flame wars, but poster Y doesn't like poster X, should we be providing a venue for poster Y to rail at poster X when poster X does not want to be involved in that venue?
You are saying no moderation and no consequences - to me that should only be when the people being attacked have also signed up for that zone. If people are abused who haven't signed up for that zone then that post should be subject to all the normal sanctions.
I'm not happy with, but can just about live with, 2 people who are both going at each other hammer and tongs being allowed to do so without moderation if they both consent to it. I'm utterly opposed to someone being given a free pass to say all the shit they want about someone who hasn't agreed to being in this zone, just because they've moved to a protected area.
Plenty of people on here will not want to be part of this area, nor will they start dishing abuse out. They shouldn't have to think that there is any part of TR which is sanctioned as an area where they can be abused without recourse.
I reproduce our vision statement below. Frankly, I don't really see how this forum fits in to the vision at all, and I would vote against it generally, but I am specifically appalled at the prospect of us officially sanctioning an area where our vision is entirely disregarded and people are free to flame members who do not wish to be involved in this.
This entire concept is forgetting what we are about and opposite to what was envisaged when we first started. This is supposed to be a place which encourages rational, considered discourse, not a place which provides a venue for bullies and abusers to operate unchecked.
If we get an influx of KKK apologists or paedophile apologists are we going to provide them with a separate playpen as well? We do not have to accommodate anyone who does not wish to participate in TR as it was envisaged and as the large majority of members wish it to remain, as any poll taken on the issue shows. This smacks of giving in to a few with loud voices just because they can shout hard.
Tell me how any of this proposal fits in with the concept outlined below, because I am not seeing it at all.
Who are the TalkRats?
This forum was created to serve a community, so it is important to share the defining vision of that community. The community that the founders of this forum envisioned is inclusive of all respectful and thoughtful voices, thriving on a culture that is secular, freethinking, tolerant, outreaching, self-organizing, harmless, inviting, charming, intelligent, progressive, caring, interesting, and fun.
Rational discussion is valued. Respect and dignity are valued, as is the discipline of keeping conversations on track, addressing the subject at hand.
However, it is to be recognized that sometimes discussions can become somewhat robust, and that sometimes a witty or informative aside may be interjected into a discussion, without detracting from a discussion as a whole.
The role of the staff in keeping discussions within reasonable bounds and on-track is discussed below.
People from the non secular community should be made welcome to participate, but they should expect religious and other supernatural views to be subject to close scrutiny.
Statement of Purpose
TR is founded with the mission of service to a growing community of TalkRats. The purpose of TR is to provide a forum where members of the community may have rational discussions on a wide range of topics, without the over interference of abuse and insults, proselytizing, trolling, goading, and other self-serving tactics that do not serve the community as a whole.