What If?

[Lisa0315]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa

[Lucretius III]

Can I just say I HATE THESE TIME PARADOXES !!!!

[Lisa0315]

Can I just say I HATE THESE TIME PARADOXES !!!!


Sure, you can say anything you like.

[Jet Black]

that would explain that the flagellum was obviously modelled on an outboard motor, as amply demonstrated by this metric that I heard of.

[SteveF]

This is sort of the plot of the Hyperion novels by Dan Simmons. Well, kind of. Ish.

[Martin.au]

Very Douglas Adams-ish. :D

I don't think we can either support or deny this with our current knowledge. :D

[leccy]

More Douglas Bader-ish TBH.

As in the idea has no legs.

[Lisa0315]

Sorry, y'all know I know little about science. I just thought it was a fun idea.

[Faid]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I read a smal SF novel about that once.

I think it was even more weird: The collective intelligence the human reace had become turned into a transcended form of pure information/energy or something and left the Universe- but before, it travelled back in time to absorb the conciousness of every human that ever lived, at the time of their death.

Can't remember whether the good consciousnesseses were rewarded somehow, or whether the bad ones were placed in some kind of informational Lake of Fire.

[Lucretius III]

It's as much a philosophical thing at least on a superficial level.
It would also imply that time is in an infinite loop and therefore all of history has to be completely pre-determined and we would have no free will

[Faid]

Sorry, y'all know I know little about science. I just thought it was a fun idea.
Hey, nobody said it wasn't a fun idea. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be writing stories about it. ;)

[Lucretius III]

As I said I hate them perhaps I should clarify I only do so as you end up going around & round in circles until your head hurts .

[Lisa0315]

Okay, so if this were possible, how would it work? I like the energy absorbing consciousness thing.

As for freewill, is it possible that this god would also evolve? Is it possible that the past changes everytime that someone dies in the future?

[Gagundathar Inexplicable]

There was a theologian named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who wrote about the Omega point.

So, Lisa, it isn't quite as silly of an idea as it first looks.
Or else, this dude is just as silly as you.
Or maybe he IS you.
Except with .... uh.... bosoms.

[SteveF]

Well I read something a while back about how the universe was about to come to an end, so it created a giant quantum computer simulation out of itself so that the history of the universe is being constantly replayed. So we are actually only simulations of the original versions of ourselves.

Or something.

[Lisa0315]

There was a theologian named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who wrote about the Omega point.

So, Lisa, it isn't quite as silly of an idea as it first looks.
Or else, this dude is just as silly as you.
Or maybe he IS you.
Except with .... uh.... bosoms.

Well, the bosoms cannot be silly. Therefore, this idea is not as well.

What do you think of the idea of collective knowledge, something similar to instinct?

Lisa

[Lucretius III]

It is really only an extension of the old "What if you went back in time and married your own grandmother,making you your own grandfather " scenario

[Lisa0315]

It is really only an extension of the old "What if you went back in time and married your own grandmother,making you your own grandfather " scenario

Yeah, but on a grander scale, I suppose.

[leccy]

Sorry, y'all know I know little about science. I just thought it was a fun idea.

Take no notice of me - the opportunity for a Douglas Bader line was just tooooo strong;)

[umop apisdn w,I]

There was a theologian named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who wrote about the Omega point.

So, Lisa, it isn't quite as silly of an idea as it first looks.
Or else, this dude is just as silly as you.
Or maybe he IS you.
Except with .... uh.... bosoms.

Well, the bosoms cannot be silly. Therefore, this idea is not as well.

I'm sorry - but I cannot accept that logic without ample support.

At least a 'D' cup, preferably underwired.

[Gagundathar Inexplicable]

There was a theologian named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who wrote about the Omega point.

So, Lisa, it isn't quite as silly of an idea as it first looks.
Or else, this dude is just as silly as you.
Or maybe he IS you.
Except with .... uh.... bosoms.

Well, the bosoms cannot be silly. Therefore, this idea is not as well.

What do you think of the idea of collective knowledge, something similar to instinct?

Lisa

OK, well there is the concept that everything that happens is recorded in the 'Akashic Records' hey here's another wiki link...Akashic records

Oh crap... I have a web thingee I have to present for a bunch of suits.
We can talk more later, OK?

[Lisa0315]

There was a theologian named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who wrote about the Omega point.

So, Lisa, it isn't quite as silly of an idea as it first looks.
Or else, this dude is just as silly as you.
Or maybe he IS you.
Except with .... uh.... bosoms.

Well, the bosoms cannot be silly. Therefore, this idea is not as well.

I'm sorry - but I cannot accept that logic without ample support.

At least a 'D' cup, preferably underwired.

"Thou shalt believe in the bosoms on faith or marry me." I Opinions 20:16

[Lisa0315]

There was a theologian named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who wrote about the Omega point.

So, Lisa, it isn't quite as silly of an idea as it first looks.
Or else, this dude is just as silly as you.
Or maybe he IS you.
Except with .... uh.... bosoms.

Well, the bosoms cannot be silly. Therefore, this idea is not as well.

What do you think of the idea of collective knowledge, something similar to instinct?

Lisa

OK, well there is the concept that everything that happens is recorded in the 'Akashic Records' hey here's another wiki link...Akashic records

Oh crap... I have a web thingee I have to present for a bunch of suits.
We can talk more later, OK?

Yep, suits do not wait.

That was an interesting read. That is what I am talking about. Have you ever known somthing and had no idea how you knew it?

Lisa

[Lisa0315]

Sorry, y'all know I know little about science. I just thought it was a fun idea.

Take no notice of me - the opportunity for a Douglas Bader line was just tooooo strong;)

:wave: No probs.

[BWE]

Any reason this shouldn't be in Philosophy?

[Lisa0315]

Any reason this shouldn't be in Philosophy?

No, you can move it.

[Codec]

I think things are more likely to play out like The Last Question (http://www.swiftgear.com/last_question(short).html) by Asimov.

[Lisa0315]

I think things are more likely to play out like The Last Question (http://www.swiftgear.com/last_question(short).html) by Asimov.

THAT was fucking COOL! :notworthy:

[Mike PSS]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa
There would only be one of us left since absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Lisa0315]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa
There would only be one of us left since absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Highlander is God??? :eek:

[His Noodly Appendage]

Lisa, this is about the most depressing thing I've ever heard.

Millions of years of progress in every field imaginable. Transformation beyond anything we can currently imagine.

And we'd still go back and make exactly the same mistakes. Every single one of them. From wisdom teeth to hyaena birth canals (http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm#hyaena).

I think I need to go stab something.

[Mike PSS]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa
There would only be one of us left since absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Highlander is God??? :eek:
Not quite. Chop his head off and see inside.

[BWE]

Any reason this shouldn't be in Philosophy?

No, you can move it.
OK. Thanks.

[Lucretius III]

Lisa, this is about the most depressing thing I've ever heard.

Millions of years of progress in every field imaginable. Transformation beyond anything we can currently imagine.

And we'd still go back and make exactly the same mistakes. Every single one of them. From wisdom teeth to hyaena birth canals (http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm#hyaena).

I think I need to go stab something.
But surely that is the whole point IF we were to alter even the slightest thing such as the two examples you give then we could not be certain that the outcome would be the same.
Silly example,but maybe some scientist came up with a brilliant idea while taking medication for the pain from his/her wisdom teeth ,take away the wisdom teeth, you take away the pain, take away the pain you take away the meds and so you take away the idea.
Or a slightly better example a man or woman meets his/her future wife or husband in the dentist's surgery and as a result their child has a major influence on the way things turn out,if they never meet then this would alter everything
Perhaps if hyenas had easier births then there would be more of them, which would mean an increased threat level to our "ancestors" possibly leading to our extinction

[Berthold]

The sf story some have been groping :) for may be this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question).

On a more serious level, the thing has been tackled by (whom else?) Paul Davies (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-goldilocks-enigma-by-paul-davies-423076.html).

[Matty]

It is really only an extension of the old "What if you went back in time and married your own grandmother,making you your own grandfather " scenario

isnt that known as the Kentucky paradox? :D

[Ray Moscow]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa

This was dealt with in an old Isaac Asimov story: The Last Question (http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html)

[Ray Moscow]

The sf story some have been groping :) for may be this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question).

On a more serious level, the thing has been tackled by (whom else?) Paul Davies (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-goldilocks-enigma-by-paul-davies-423076.html).

Damn, Berthold beat me to it!:)

[Lisa0315]

It is really only an extension of the old "What if you went back in time and married your own grandmother,making you your own grandfather " scenario

isnt that known as the Kentucky paradox? :D

West Virginia. :D

[Lisa0315]

And it was Codec who linked to The Last Question first.

Lisa

[dancer_rnb]

It is really only an extension of the old "What if you went back in time and married your own grandmother,making you your own grandfather " scenario

isnt that known as the Kentucky paradox? :D

West Virginia. :D

I am my own grand pa......

[Berthold]

Damn, Berthold beat me to it!:)
And I overlooked Codec's post :o .

[His Noodly Appendage]

Here's a favourite question of mine:

Suppose you suddenly found yourself in the void, with no apparent physical body and no memory of anything that came before. Suppose that additionally, you found your intelligence, concentration and other cognitive facilities without apparent limit. And suppose that you found that the void obeyed your every whim, with matter, energy and rules controlling them simply springing into existence and ceasing abruptly in accordance with your will.

In other words, suppose you suddenly found yourself to be a (somewhat amnesiac) god, with an empty cosmos just waiting to be filled.

What do you create, and why?

As a secondary question, suppose that you decide to create some kind of 'people', though with no concept of what humans were like in any way. What would be your design spec? What would be the customer requirements? What abilities and attributes would you require as a bare minimum?

In other words, what are people for?

[Lisa0315]

Here's a favourite question of mine:

Suppose you suddenly found yourself in the void, with no apparent physical body and no memory of anything that came before. Suppose that additionally, you found your intelligence, concentration and other cognitive facilities without apparent limit. And suppose that you found that the void obeyed your every whim, with matter, energy and rules controlling them simply springing into existence and ceasing abruptly in accordance with your will.

In other words, suppose you suddenly found yourself to be a (somewhat amnesiac) god, with an empty cosmos just waiting to be filled.

What do you create, and why?

As a secondary question, suppose that you decide to create some kind of 'people', though with no concept of what humans were like in any way. What would be your design spec? What would be the customer requirements? What abilities and attributes would you require as a bare minimum?

In other words, what are people for?

Lovely! And I am asking the mods to not split this out to a new thread. This, in my opinion, is in keeping with the OP.

As for me, I will have to think on this one.

Lisa

[HoverCraftWheel]

Can I just say I HATE THESE TIME PARADOXES !!!!

Didn't you already will have said that?

[Lisa0315]

Can I just say I HATE THESE TIME PARADOXES !!!!

Didn't you already will have said that?

:D:D:notworthy:

[His Noodly Appendage]

(willan-on-say)

[GenesisNemesis]

Can I just say I HATE THESE TIME PARADOXES !!!!

Didn't you already will have said that?

:D:D:notworthy:

Dammit! HoverCraftWheel beat me to it.

[duck of the day]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa..or what if it were decided, given the brutality of life etc, not to go back in time and create the universe? What would our, erm, ontological status be then? Would it be like a TV being switched off backwards in time?

[Lisa0315]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa..or what if it were decided, given the brutality of life etc, not to go back in time and create the universe? What would our, erm, ontological status be then? Would it be like a TV being switched off backwards in time?

I don't know. I think after a time, we would make things right. Maybe, the reason the Bible records time as 6000 years but the universe is billions is because it has only been 6000 years since the last time we went back and time and started over. Perhaps, the next time, we will create an Earth like in John Lennon's Imagine. :dunno:

[duck of the day]

What if humans are God? What if in a trillion years into the future, we evolve to the point that we can go back in time and create the universe?

This is for fun but please poke holes in this or support with current scientific theory if you can.

Lisa..or what if it were decided, given the brutality of life etc, not to go back in time and create the universe? What would our, erm, ontological status be then? Would it be like a TV being switched off backwards in time?

I don't know. I think after a time, we would make things right. Maybe, the reason the Bible records time as 6000 years but the universe is billions is because it has only been 6000 years since the last time we went back and time and started over. Perhaps, the next time, we will create an Earth like in John Lennon's Imagine. :dunno:
..Yeah, all fur coats and white grand pianos. I'd be up for that.

[Lisa0315]

..Yeah, all fur coats and white grand pianos. I'd be up for that.

:D Let's just make John Lennon our next God.

Thou shalt take many drugs until you have kids.
Thou shalt make great music, no silly love songs.
Thou shalt fight the government and win.
Thou shalt have naked peace rallies.

:notworthy:

[Matty]

Sheesh, the new religion isnt even started and already ther is cherry picking.

Thou shalt form a seriously overrated group that shalt be the basis for all future boy bands.
Thou shalt be the only talented member of said group yet people shalt still have to listen to the sucky ones for many years after you die
Thou shalt have a really really minging missus and she shalt get her kit off on telly much to the disgust of everyone.
Thou shalt have a scouse accent
Thou shalt only start to make good music at about album no 6 and after you have started to take acid at the insistence of your guitarist


lets not. :)


Thou shalt make great music, no silly love songs.Ummm. No.

Love love love, I wanna hold your hand, love me do, ps i love you, i'm happy just to dance with you, cant buy me love, and i love her.

:p:p

[Lucretius III]

To be fair it was McCartney who recorded that abomination of a song Silly Love Songs

[Lisa0315]

To be fair it was McCartney who recorded that abomination of a song Silly Love Songs

Exactly. That is why I said great songs NO SILLY LOVE SONGS!


Lisa

[Lisa0315]

Sheesh, the new religion isnt even started and already ther is cherry picking.

Thou shalt form a seriously overrated group that shalt be the basis for all future boy bands.
Thou shalt be the only talented member of said group yet people shalt still have to listen to the sucky ones for many years after you die
Thou shalt have a really really minging missus and she shalt get her kit off on telly much to the disgust of everyone.
Thou shalt have a scouse accent
Thou shalt only start to make good music at about album no 6 and after you have started to take acid at the insistence of your guitarist


lets not. :)


Thou shalt make great music, no silly love songs.Ummm. No.

Love love love, I wanna hold your hand, love me do, ps i love you, i'm happy just to dance with you, cant buy me love, and i love her.

:p:p

Yeah, I love those songs. While we are creating this doctrine, let's say that there cannot be any SOLO silly love songs. Better?

[epepke]

A few thoughts:

The OP idea is the basis of The Omega Point. Most physicists aren't convinced.

It obviously has connections with Mormon theology.

We might at some time in the future be able to make black holes, and if it turns out to be correct that a black hole spawns a new universe, we would therefore fill the role of a kind of deistic god. There's lots of science fiction that explores this and related concepts.

There are some religious traditions which hold that humans (and the rest of the Universe) are little pieces of a fragmented god. It's difficult to put a name on this idea, as it seems to crop up as minority traditions within other religions, such as Hinduism and Gnostic Christianity. It seems a fairly common idea for humans to come up with, but seldom does more than a tiny minority go along with it.

[Berthold]

There are some religious traditions which hold that humans (and the rest of the Universe) are little pieces of a fragmented god. It's difficult to put a name on this idea,...
Uh...

Isn't this a part of Platonism?

[Matty]

To be fair it was McCartney who recorded that abomination of a song Silly Love Songs

Exactly. That is why I said great songs NO SILLY LOVE SONGS!


Lisa

Doh!! Now i get you.

Yeah, I love those songs. While we are creating this doctrine, let's say that there cannot be any SOLO silly love songs. Better?
Lets not. I know i'm in the minority but as far as deifying the beatles go i'm very much an atheist. :)

[dug_down_deep]

Hai guys. Paul McCartney, as puzzling as he is, is not actually a paradox.


Careful, Matty, or I'll split this back to Media. :P

[Matty]

not a bad idea anyway. soz for the derail.