Custom user titles - thoughts?

[Febble]

At the moment, anyone can set their own custom user title, and mods and admins have been writing their own, in an attempt to make it clear what their role is.

It's certainly nice to be able to have your own custom user title (and I was disappointed to find there wasn't room for much after I'd put in the mod information) but we need a few rules (I think) about what is acceptable, if only (and this is an important point) not to confuse other members about what official roles people have.

At the moment, as I understand it, words like "admin" and "mod" are not available to people who aren't admins or mods (duh) but with free-thinking creative minds at work, other possibly misleading combos are possible.

What do people think? Are customisable titles worth having? Should there be rules? Should they be flexible? Should admins have the authority to require a change should a members choice be considered misleading?

The reason I think this is worth thrashing out at this stage is a) because one of the bones of contention at RnR recently was confusion over prank custom titles and b) it's come up here.

So I thought it was time to initiate an open discussion.

Cheers

Lizzie

[Christina]

I would hate to see us lock down user titles for everyone because most people are reasonable about them. I think that we have a thread in here where we worked out policies for avatars and sigs, and maybe we can add some limits there - just common sense stuff like not making them NSFW, not spoofing staff titles, and not using them to troll with. I really don't like the idea of punishing everyone for the occasional problem of someone using theirs to get attention.

[Tartantyco]

-You have to like my UT Febble.

[Alethias]

Personally, I'd prefer that we used some other way to denote a mod/admin other than the user title. I LOVED your wandering housekeeper user title, and ravens Pagan Pantheist Pulpiteer and HNA's "Hail Fellow Whale Meat" user title. It seems a little less friendly to me that we don't have custom user titles.

What if we were to come up with some little mini mod icon, or a mini Admin Icon that were only in mod and admin titles? That way, we could still customize them and have fun, but at the same time it'd be clear.

I agree that I don't much like people that don't hold official positions using titles that could be misleading to :newbie:'s. And I think that we need to reserve the right to reject user titles that are in some fashion inappropriate.

[Christina]

I liked using that title too, so I like the idea of some other way to designate staff besides our user titles or a font that newbies might not understand. Then we just have to change the misleading ones if they won't change them themselves. We probably have to have the same policy about sigs when it comes to the misleading stuff, unfortunately.

[The 800# Gorilla]

I would think that as long as they're not pornographic, pedophile or profanity that they shouldn't be censored.

[Febble]

-You have to like my UT Febble.

:D :wave:

[rigorist]

Use vbulletin ranks and badges. Stinking badges.

[The 800# Gorilla]

Stinking badges.I don't need no stinking badges. :p

[Alethias]

I would think that as long as they're not pornographic, pedophile or profanity that they shouldn't be censored.I agree that pornographic or pedophile shouldn't be allowed(for legal reasons), although I'm not sure on the profanity piece. If someone wanted their custom usertitle to be 'Fucking Nuts', I don't know why that should be disallowed, for example.

But some people really seem to like to know who the mods and admins and sys admins are. A common way to denote that on many sites is through the use of user titles.

If someone expects to be able to figure that out by the user title, but none of the site admins or mods have anything that make it obvious, but some of the other members that aren't admins or mods or sys admins do say that they are that in their custom usertitle, it can be confusing or misleading.

Do you think that should be left wide open? and if so how would you suggest we cope with people that get confused by the result?

[Christina]

I don't have a problem with profanity in that small of a font. In a huge font it creates an NSFW problem, but not in this case.

[Garnet]

I like rigs idea of steenkin' badges.

[Christina]

What do they look like? I don't want to look like we're cops or the rational response squad.

[The 800# Gorilla]

I would think something under the post count would be appropriate.

[dug_down_deep]

Couldn't the mod/admin title be added on in addition to the custom one? Like the donor tag at IIDB and RnR?

[B Cereus]

I'd prefer to keep the ability to have custom user titles, because it's fun. I like Alethias's idea of having a special icon for mods and admins.

[Tartantyco]

-Maybe a different coloured nick as well(Admin: Red. Mod: Green. Us Serfs: Blue), then the rest of the info under the post count.

[DMB]

-Maybe a different coloured nick as well(Admin: Red. Mod: Green. Us Serfs: Blue), then the rest of the info under the post count.

This and badges?

[Tartantyco]

This and badges?

-And caek.

[David B]

Custom user titles generally add to the rich pageant of human experience.

To legislate for all possible titles doesn't seem either possible or desirable, since writing rules too tightly seems to lead inexorably to over moderation, and to Pharisaical judgements on behalf of both staff and users, with a general tendency towards over rule making, and over modding.

However, if some such titles appear misleading, or generally asshat, then I think the staff, after a mix of private and/or public sounding out, have a responsibility to suggest, to ask, and in the extreme to insist that asshattery in user titles goes.

Like, for instance, describing oneself as the owner of the site in a user title.

David B

[mac_philo]

Yes indeed. Let us have an open debate. I have made it painfully obvious to the person who was chosen or volunteered to contact me after your private deliberations that one needs only to make a request that meets the normal standards for asking something supererogatory of someone who is not a family member or close friend. Given that this site aims for less disdainful imperiousness than the governance of IIDB, and more civility than many of the places hosting IIDB refugees, I am utterly baffled by how this has been attempted.

So I'll provide my half of the interminably long correspondence on the matter, which by my reckoning could easily have been resolved in as few as four simple words---"please change your title."

I assume there is no rule against false and misleading titles, or you'd have simply stated that fact or changed it yourself.

You know, I'd be more inclined to change it if I thought I was being engaged on friendly terms by someone who considers me an equal, and who is making a request containing some equivalent of "please."

Do you find that you have much success making requests with this form and tone? Do you yourself respond well to such requests? Is this the standard form of all requests you make of others? Do you think this it is polite to say "How about you make me a sandwich. Thanks."

Perhaps I am reading a bit into your message, but this is the second time a staff member here has sent me a PM that was either bafflingly presumptuous and wrong about why I am here, or was simply rude.

I don't know if there is some incorrect assumption that I played a role in the EB drama, or what, but I really don't understand my reception here. Almost all the staff here is also on RnR, yet I feel like my short membership there is predisposing people to treat me a certain way. In fact the other PMs I've received here have explicitly cited RnR, for no good reason.

I don't understand why after participating at IIDB for eight years, and doing nothing here but posting my opinions in good faith and having a bit of a laugh with my user title, the ratio of my posts to presumptuous and impolite PMs from staff is nearly 1:1.

The form of a "plain vanilla request" to have a user do something supererogatory must contain some equivalent of the word "please" if it is to avoid being rude and presumptuous.

I never said you should apologize for making the request, or that the request was unjustified, or that the title is not misleading, or that TR should be like RnR.

Despite the fact that every message I've posted here would be within the standards of the original IIDB rules, I now have 6 PMs that either make rude requests or take pains to remind me, as you did in your closing point, that this is not RnR.

I cannot believe I need to be this explicit. You have apologized for the original request, and the only other request I have received is an exact duplicate.

Here is what would be polite enough:

A request that uses the word please or some equivalent phrase when asking that I do something not required by the rules. As a pre-emptive constraint, it must also be contained in a message that lacks all sarcasm and profiling of myself as someone whose participation here has something to do with RnR.

Now the 4th PM I have received has finally included please or some equivalent, but the writer counterbalances the pain of lowering himself or herself down to my level by opening the message with:
"I'm not much interested in pissing contests: I outgrew them decades ago."

If a single admin here would have made a minimally polite and civil request to change my user title, it would have been changed yesterday, and thousands of words ago. The "issue" cited in the OP has nothing to do with custom user titles, it has to do with the fact that nobody on staff seems willing to treat me with the dignity and respect they would treat someone in real life, or the dignity and respect I assume they'd show to fellow staff.

[ravenscape]

If you don't mind my asking, why did you choose a misleading user name?

[Christina]

I think I should interject an apology to you because I think that I have you mixed up with someone that I know better from IIDB, and sending you a PM in a personal tone and saying that I wasn't speaking as a mod must have been weird and confusing. I'm sorry about that.

[mac_philo]

I chose a misleading user name for a stupid laugh. This joke is as old as the custom user title field.

[David B]

If you don't mind my asking, why did you choose a misleading user name?

Or, to put it another way, why behave like an asshat in the first place?

David B

[His Noodly Appendage]

Most public establishments don't have dress codes.

That said, however, they generally hold with people wandering around in staff uniforms.

This strikes me as a reasonable approach.

(and I'd agree, though - I'd have wanted a 'please', too - though I'd not have been so narky about not getting one. )

[Pendaric]

The initial PM to you was not in the slightest bit hostile, arrogant or uncivil. That you have chosen to interpret it as such merely suggests that you are more interested in picking fights for the sake of it than for any constructive discussion.

[mac_philo]

I can't imagine anything I am less interested in than talking about custom user titles, either in a constructive or non-constructive manner, which is why four words would be sufficient to end the issue permanently.

[Febble]

I think there has been a simple misunderstanding. Tone is not always "heard" correctly on the internet, whether it is the tone of a PM or the tone of a custom user title. Sender and receiver bring different (and sometimes erroneous) assumptions to bear. Dammit, we don't even all speak English, and even those of us that do learned very different idioms, especially concerning manners. "A Canadian is ruder when being polite than an American is when being rude". And beware an English poster who begins: "with the greatest respect....."

Smileys help sometimes, but you can't put a smiley in a custom user title :)

There may be a technofix, all the same. But, in the meantime, mac_philo, would you be good enough as to change it?

(I leave it to you to judge whether I am being hyper-polite there, or, being a Brit, hyper-offensive....)

Cheers

Lizzie

[ravenscape]

Would you please change your custom title to something that is not misleading?

Thanks.

[mac_philo]

Yes, I am happy to do so. Thanks.

[Pendaric]

If you weren't interested in it then you had no need to bring the issue in to focus by your decision to phrase your user title in the manner you have.

If the 4 words you are looking for are 'please amend your title', then:

Please amend your title.

[The 800# Gorilla]

Nm.:d

[alien billie]

Phew, lucky I came late to this party.

Like, for instance, describing oneself as the owner of the site in a user title.

So I guess my original choice of "pwner of IIDB" would have been right out of the question? :p

[His Noodly Appendage]

Ehh. I think it's a valid point. We are 900-foot godzillas in battlemech suits; we can afford friendly courtesy sufficient to drown small countries*. We are going for an egalitarian community here, after all.

* The first time round, at least.

[ravenscape]

Perhaps out of the question to IIDB...:D

[Octavia]

Yes, I am happy to do so. Thanks.

Thank-you very much. :)

[llanitedave]

Talk about a derail!

Yes, user titles are a valuable tool, and misleading user titles should not be tolerated.

I like the idea of a color scheme for mods and admins -- a site that I moderate uses green for mods and red for admins. There's also a sort of badge -- a small "M" that appears by the screen name if the mod is posting in one of the subforums he or she is assigned. If posting in a subforum moderated by someone else, the green color is retained, but the badge is absent.

It works well on that particular site.

As for user titles, I'd go for as lax an approach as practical -- only those titles that are truly offensive to the point of illegality, NSFW, or misrepresentation should be questioned.

[Octavia]

As for user titles, I'd go for as lax an approach as practical -- only those titles that are truly offensive to the point of illegality, NSFW, or misrepresentation should be questioned.

That's certainly my preference. :)

[Gojira]

Ehh. I think it's a valid point. We are 900-foot godzillas in battlemech suits; we can afford friendly courtesy sufficient to drown small countries*. We are going for an egalitarian community here, after all.

* The first time round, at least.

What sort of wussy little 900-foot Godzilla needs a battle mech suit? :dunno:

But I'd agree with llanitedave as far as user titles go - the less control the better, but we do need a little bit of externally applied common sense.

[DMB]

Talk about a derail!

Yes, user titles are a valuable tool, and misleading user titles should not be tolerated.

I like the idea of a color scheme for mods and admins -- a site that I moderate uses green for mods and red for admins. There's also a sort of badge -- a small "M" that appears by the screen name if the mod is posting in one of the subforums he or she is assigned. If posting in a subforum moderated by someone else, the green color is retained, but the badge is absent.

It works well on that particular site.

As for user titles, I'd go for as lax an approach as practical -- only those titles that are truly offensive to the point of illegality, NSFW, or misrepresentation should be questioned.
Spot on!