Ethical Issue

[none the wiser]

I started therapy today at a Christian counseling center. I chose it merely because I had seen this particular therapist before to aid in my sister's therapy, and I was relatively comfortable with her and the setting.

Obviously this is complicated by the fact I am not Christian, and then again by the fact that this counseling center is attached to the church I attended for years...where everyone assumes I'm just a non-attending member.

At the end of my session she asked if I minded praying, and I said I don't pray, but didn't mind if she did...because it really doesn't bother me. If she thinks it'll "work"...I'll take all the help I can get. Well, as we were walking out we started discussing payment, and apparently church members get a discount. Everything moved too fast for me to say anything about it, and my brain moves so slow anyway...am I still a church member by default? I am still on the roster. I still participate in events with my family.

I don't want my family to know that I don't believe (I'm pretty sure it would literally kill them both) but they're gonna notice if my bill is different than my sisters was, and they will ask me about it...which would lead to more lying. Plus, since they're paying, the discount doesn't really affect me. But I feel deceptive also not saying something to my counselor.

So what should I do? :dunno:

[Ray Moscow]

Christian counsellor?

My experience with them is uniformly bad. I mean, really bad. The last one I sent someone to, on the advice of my SIL, tried to seduce the client. I found out later that my SIL already knew that the counsellor "had this problem".

My advice? Switch to a secular counsellor.

[Goldie]

Christian counsellor?

My experience with them is uniformly bad. I mean, really bad. The last one I sent someone to, on the advice of my SIL, tried to seduce the client. I found out later that my SIL already knew that the counsellor "had this problem".

My advice? Switch to a secular counsellor.

I agree with Ray...
But, if you are to continue... It sounds like you ARE a member of that church, because you haven't "opted out." Your parents, who are paying, ARE members. You certainly wouldn't be the first member of a Christian church who had lost their faith, not by a longshot.
But...seriously, if you need councelling and you ARE an Atheist, you won't be getting the real help you need from a Christian councellor who thinks you are Christian, as well.
Make up a story for you parents about not feeling comfy with this one and do a little homework before you settle on a councellor.

[none the wiser]

So far it's been ok...she only mentioned god with the prayer, as I said. All the advice she gave me was secular...trust me, if it was "trust god and all your dreams would come true" or something, or if it starts to sound like that, I'm outta there doublequick.

I will keep that in mind though, if the discussion does turn religious. My sister is agnostic, and she said there was no "Jesus talk," so I guess I'm being optimistic. I think they are trying to be a community counseling center, rather than "tending the flock"...*shrug*

Anyway, thank you. It is something to consider. :)

[Goldie]

So far it's been ok...she only mentioned god with the prayer, as I said. All the advice she gave me was secular...trust me, if it was "trust god and all your dreams would come true" or something, or if it starts to sound like that, I'm outta there doublequick.

I will keep that in mind though, if the discussion does turn religious. My sister is agnostic, and she said there was no "Jesus talk," so I guess I'm being optimistic. I think they are trying to be a community counseling center, rather than "tending the flock"...*shrug*

Anyway, thank you. It is something to consider. :)

Well... I wonder if you shouldn't just be upfront about your beliefs and ask her if she feels that it would be an issue for her if she continues to treat you.
You mentioned that your parents are paying and that you don't want them to know about your lack of belief. May I ask...are you 18 or older? If so, they have no right to know anything about your councelling without YOUR consent.

[none the wiser]

So far it's been ok...she only mentioned god with the prayer, as I said. All the advice she gave me was secular...trust me, if it was "trust god and all your dreams would come true" or something, or if it starts to sound like that, I'm outta there doublequick.

I will keep that in mind though, if the discussion does turn religious. My sister is agnostic, and she said there was no "Jesus talk," so I guess I'm being optimistic. I think they are trying to be a community counseling center, rather than "tending the flock"...*shrug*

Anyway, thank you. It is something to consider. :)

Well... I wonder if you shouldn't just be upfront about your beliefs and ask her if she feels that it would be an issue for her if she continues to treat you.
You mentioned that your parents are paying and that you don't want them to know about your lack of belief. May I ask...are you 18 or older? If so, they have no right to know anything about your councelling without YOUR consent.

Yeah, I'm 22. And that's true...she gave me a confidentiality thing. Anything I say in "the room" is safe. I guess I'm more worried about them noticing the bill difference. I am, unfortunately and fortunately, still on my parents' insurance.

I think that the issue of belief probably will come up...after all it was a huge change in my life this past year (and more). Might be best to bring it up when we discuss the payment though.

[muon]

What's unethical for a counselling service that's in the business of helping people to give preferential treatment to people based on their religious affiliation.

Given that fact, and the fact that by the book you're actually a member of their church, you're perfectly right to claim the discount that they unethically offer in any case.

[David B]

Some years ago now - I suppose getting on for twenty - I was sent on a counselling course.

Which succeeded in raising my sceptical hackles.

I will concede that counselling can have a placebo effect, and, further, that accepting that there are problems, and seeking help, c an, in themselves, be an important part of recovery.

But the course did impress on me that bad counselling can do a lot of harm, while good counselling won't do a lot of harm.

Good counselling?

Well, non judgemental, for a start.

Not offering panaceas, second.

Bringing the topic of conversation back to what you, the person with the problem thinks about it, third.

There is, I suppose, some evidence that expensive placebos work better than cheap ones.

This year's Igs had one prize for that.

Medicine: Dan Ariely for demonstrating that expensive placebos are more effective than inexpensive placebos.

But that would b e a silly thing to fall for.

What about Eliza?

Free.

Non-judgemental.

Doesn't offer unrealistic panaceas.

Brings conversation back to your thoughts.

Worth a try?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

David B (is serious)

[Garnet]

NTW, I think Goldie gave some excellent advice. You are a member of the church. You attend, so do your parents. What goes on inside your head is not a condition of membership. I suspect you would be surprised if there was a way of knowing how many people attend church, but don't really believe. Personally, I think many people who attend church do so for social reasons. But that's just me, being cynical.

Anyway, ethically, you're a church member entitled to the discount. Don't fret about it.

As others have mentioned, just be sure that the treatment is helpful rather than harmful.

[Jobar]

It does speak well of your own ethics that you're concerned about this question; but I agree with Garnet that you should just claim membership and go from there, if the counselor you're seeing suits you.

[seebs]

Good counseling is a great deal different from Eliza, and is often very helpful to people.

I don't know what to advise on this; I would think that if it's covered by insurance, it'd be the same copay either way, though.

[Vorpal]

I believe Goldie's advice is good.

Therapy is best with honesty.

It is possible for one to be a professional with Christian leanings
to offer general good advice.

If they start bringing 8-deep "intercessions" on your lack of faith
without regard to other issues, then you know what time it is.
However, I really do not see that happening in a professional environment.