View Full Version : What is an Atheist?
Reader,
I want you to click the link and fast forward to about 4:40 mins into the video.
The professor precribes the atheist as a person that has various epistemic norms, ethical values such as "responsibility for our lives" and similar hopes for others. This is problematic because these prescriptions go beyond what atheism constitutes. Atheism is becoming more than just a denial or disbelief in God; atheism is becoming a culture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNXaV53VnI
Ray Moscow
10-25-2008, 11:17 PM
At its simplest, an atheist is just someone without belief in god or gods.
However, that's not enough for people who want "atheism" to stand for certain things, and I suppose that's what this guy is trying to do.
Goldie
10-25-2008, 11:56 PM
I am an atheist...but I am not what the majority of what people think of when they think of the word "atheist." I am much more than that.
I want to show that atheist can care, can be altruistic and community minded. They can fight for what is "right" without all need of a god telling them to do it or go to hell.
I want to show that atheists CAN be, and often are very benevolent.
We are just humans...just.
So I call my self an atheist, but also a secular humanist. That does not mean that the definition of the word "Atheist" should change. It is simply the opposite of "Theist."
Even Christians argue the definition of christianity.
I am probably not the purest definition of a secular humanist... but it's close enough if I am looking for a definition...by I am most certainly an atheist.
Vicious Love
10-26-2008, 12:01 AM
What is an atheist?
Lemme think for a second. (well? )
Oh, he gets butt naked.
And then he walks through the street winkin' at freaks,
Wit' a two-liter stuck in his butt-cheeks!
What is an atheist?
He just don't care.
He might try to put a weave in his nut hair.
'Cuz he could give a fuck less what a bitch thinks,
He tell her that her butt stinks, and all that,
What is an atheist?
He drinks like a fish,
And then he starts huggin' people like a drunk bitch,
Next thing hes pickin' fights with his best friends,
Then he starts with the huggin again, fuck,
What is an atheist?
A fuckin' lunatic.
Somebody with a rope tied to his dick,
Then he jumps out a ten-story window, oh!
(chorus)
What is an atheist?
An atheist? if that's what it is, well fuck if I know.
What is aan atheist?
I don't know, but I'm down with the clown, and I'm down for life, yo.
(end chorus)
(chorus)
(vocal breakdown)
What is an atheist?
A dead body.
Well he ain't really dead, but he ain't like anybody
That you've ever met before.
He'll eat monopoly and shit out connect four.
What is an ath-
What the fuck? connec-man, that shit's wack.
Don't worry 'bout my shit, just rap, mutha fucker.
What is an atheist?
He ain't a bitch boy.
He'll walk through to the hills and beat down a rich boy.
Walks right in the house where ya havin' supper,
And dip his nuts in ya soup, oop!
What is an atheist?
Well he ain't a phoney.
He'll walk up and bust a nut in your macaroni.
And watch you sit there and finish up the last bit,
Cuz you're a stupid-ass dumb fuckin' idiot.
What is an atheist?
He's a graduate.
He graduated from... well,
At least he's got a job, he's not a dumb putz,
He works for himself scratchin' his nuts, ha!
What is an atheist?
A hulkamaniac.
He powerbombs mutha fuckas into thumbtacks. (bwa!)
People like him 'till they find out he's unstable.
He sabued yo' mama through a coffee table. (oh my god!)
(chorus)
(vocal breakdown)
(chorus)
(chorus)
(vocal breakdown)
What is an atheist?
David B
10-26-2008, 12:27 AM
By the very asking 'what is an atheist?' might I suggest that you are implicitly reducing atheists to things?
You might say, legitimately 'what is a chad?' or 'what is an election fraud', I think.
But you wouldn't say 'what is a conservative' or 'what is a liberal?', would you?
I'd tend to say 'what is liberalism?' or 'what is conservatism?' myself.
Not 'what is a liberal?' or 'what is a conservative'?!!!!!!
You?
David (sees all sorts of regrettable historical precedents for viewing people as things)
ninewands
10-26-2008, 12:27 AM
An atheist is a person who lacks a personal belief in a deity. End of answer.
Anything more or anything less is mere embroidery on that base fact and constitutes the professor's apparently rather low opinion of what the theist's state of person moral maturity must be. A more truthful statement would be, "... the human being is a person that has various epistemic norms, ethical values such as 'responsibility for our lives' and similar hopes for others."
By the very asking 'what is an atheist?' might I suggest that you are implicitly reducing atheists to things?
You might say, legitimately 'what is a chad?' or 'what is an election fraud', I think.
But you wouldn't say 'what is a conservative' or 'what is a liberal?', would you?
I'd tend to say 'what is liberalism?' or 'what is conservatism?' myself.
Not 'what is a liberal?' or 'what is a conservative'?!!!!!!
You?
David (sees all sorts of regrettable historical precedents for viewing people as things)
Scott: I am a human being.
Alien: What is a human being?
Scott: Omg Godz! Don't reduce human beings to things! k?! I sees all sorts of regrettable historical precedents for viewing people as things.
---
Theyre nouns, Dave. Take a chill pill.
David B
10-26-2008, 12:37 AM
By the very asking 'what is an atheist?' might I suggest that you are implicitly reducing atheists to things?
You might say, legitimately 'what is a chad?' or 'what is an election fraud', I think.
But you wouldn't say 'what is a conservative' or 'what is a liberal?', would you?
I'd tend to say 'what is liberalism?' or 'what is conservatism?' myself.
Not 'what is a liberal?' or 'what is a conservative'?!!!!!!
You?
David (sees all sorts of regrettable historical precedents for viewing people as things)
Scott: I am a human being.
Alien: What is a human being?
Scott: Omg Godz! Don't reduce human beings to things! k?! I sees all sorts of regrettable historical precedents for viewing people as things.
---
Theyre nouns, Dave. Take a chill pill.
You think there are aliens:eek:
David B
cmoon
10-26-2008, 04:17 AM
I'm still looking for a term for people who don't believe in religions. Those are definitely rubbish.
His Noodly Appendage
10-26-2008, 05:00 AM
Of course I believe in baptism; I've seen it done!
-- Mark Twain
trendkill
10-26-2008, 06:38 AM
I'm still looking for a term for people who don't believe in religions. Those are definitely rubbish."Nonreligious" :eek:
Bill Maher calls them "rationalists", which I find optimistic to the point of absurdity.
GenesisNemesis
10-26-2008, 07:38 AM
Atheism is becoming more than just a denial or disbelief in God; atheism is becoming a culture.
Not anymore than not collecting stamps is becoming a culture.
James T
10-26-2008, 08:12 AM
From http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html my personal favourite (with some slight editing).
What We Must Do
We want to stand upon our own feet and look fair and square at the world -- its good facts, its bad facts, its beauties, and its ugliness; see the world as it is and be not afraid of it. Conquer the world by intelligence and not merely by being slavishly subdued by the terror that comes from it. [snip]. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, [snip]. A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; [snip]. It needs a fearless outlook and a free intelligence. It needs hope for the future [snip] which we trust will be far surpassed by the future that our intelligence can create.
Lugubert
10-26-2008, 08:57 AM
When I first labeled myself atheist, I took it to mean that I don't believe there are "gods".
Later on the Internet I discovered "hard" atheism, "weak" atheism and agnosticism. At least for myself, I don't need to find myself a place in terms of those three (which I regard as a belonging to a continuum) but still just think I'm an atheist.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods.
In terms of positive values, many atheists call themselves Humanists. Here is the minimum statement (http://www.iheu.org/minimumstatement) of Humanism agreed by all the organisations that are members of the world body, the International Humanist and Ethical Union.
Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.
IHEU also has a fuller agreed statement (http://www.iheu.org/amsterdamdeclaration) about Humanism here.
Atheism is becoming more than just a denial or disbelief in God; atheism is becoming a culture.
Not anymore than not collecting stamps is becoming a culture.
As i have shown, there are factions that are doing otherwise.
Ray Moscow
10-26-2008, 06:45 PM
Mean ol' atheists, creating a culture!
To me it seems perfectly natural for some unbelievers to form groups of like-minded people and try to define some general principles that they do stand for, instead of just those woo-woo ones that they don't believe in.
As an ex-Christian and (somewhat later) ex-pagan, it always seemed natural for me to join and be in a group, though I haven't felt the need to be in any "atheist" groups so far except for boards like this one. But if I were still in the US south or another highly religious area, I probably would seek the company of fellow unbelievers just to stay sane.
trendkill
10-26-2008, 07:17 PM
It would be ridiculous to expect people not to form culture. Is "theism" a culture? No, it's simply that there are theistic cultures. It shouldn't come as a shock that, given that there are atheists, there is atheistic culture as well.
It would be ridiculous to expect people not to form culture. Is "theism" a culture? No, it's simply that there are theistic cultures. It shouldn't come as a shock that, given that there are atheists, there is atheistic culture as well.
This thread is not about expectations. I am pointing out that there are factions that are altering atheism to refer to a cultural rather than mere disbelief/denial of god. This is not something that all atheists tend to acknowledge, and I think it's important that these atheist become aware of it.
Goldie
10-26-2008, 07:41 PM
People need people.
Personally, I sometimes NEED to talk to people who don't bring a god into the conversation.
I have finally met 2 others (not related) in my town. (Besides my own small family...husband and son)
One is my hairdresser, one is a massage therapist. My massage therapist says there are many more "like us" in town, but they are not a group. I wish there was one here (besides just the students at the University)
It would be SO nice just to sit and talk to atheists once a week...just about life, in general. Until then... I only have TR.
Preno
10-26-2008, 08:22 PM
It's just plain false to say that atheists "demand good reasons for all beliefs".
Columbus
10-26-2008, 09:49 PM
It's just plain false to say that atheists "demand good reasons for all beliefs".
Bingo!
Atheists might believe in UFOs or White Supremacy or the Second Law of Thermodynamics or algebra, what they have in common is only a recognition that the stories told by religionists are self-contradictory and irrational. Maybe Jesus really did Rise from the Dead, maybe Gabriel really did give Muhammad the Q'ran. There just isn't any particular reason to believe these sort of theological assertions except for a preference that they be true. There is no evidence at all. It's all about preference, despite the facts.
Tom
trendkill
10-26-2008, 10:28 PM
It would be ridiculous to expect people not to form culture. Is "theism" a culture? No, it's simply that there are theistic cultures. It shouldn't come as a shock that, given that there are atheists, there is atheistic culture as well.
This thread is not about expectations. I am pointing out that there are factions that are altering atheism to refer to a cultural rather than mere disbelief/denial of god. This is not something that all atheists tend to acknowledge, and I think it's important that these atheist become aware of it.I see. Well, this is not exactly a brand-new phenomenon. American Atheists in particular capitalizes "Atheism" and uses it to refer to a belief system with specific tenets. So why is this something that atheists need to be made aware of?
It would be ridiculous to expect people not to form culture. Is "theism" a culture? No, it's simply that there are theistic cultures. It shouldn't come as a shock that, given that there are atheists, there is atheistic culture as well.
This thread is not about expectations. I am pointing out that there are factions that are altering atheism to refer to a cultural rather than mere disbelief/denial of god. This is not something that all atheists tend to acknowledge, and I think it's important that these atheist become aware of it.I see. Well, this is not exactly a brand-new phenomenon. American Atheists in particular capitalizes "Atheism" and uses it to refer to a belief system with specific tenets. So why is this something that atheists need to be made aware of?
Atheists need to be aware of it so I don't get lashed at when I speak of its cultural turn.
trendkill
10-27-2008, 04:28 AM
Okay, fair enough. Even I find it annoying to see pages of responses saying "atheism is nothing but a lack of belief in god" sometimes. Yes, it's technically true and sometimes it's even relevant, but not always.
SophistiCat
10-27-2008, 01:23 PM
Atheism is becoming more than just a denial or disbelief in God; atheism is becoming a culture.
You came to this conclusion after listening to some guy holding forth on YouTube? And you thought that it's important that atheists are aware of this? :dunno: Did it ever occur to you that this YouTube guy was not an appointed spokesman of all atheists?
Atheism is becoming more than just a denial or disbelief in God; atheism is becoming a culture.
You came to this conclusion after listening to some guy holding forth on YouTube? And you thought that it's important that atheists are aware of this? :dunno: Did it ever occur to you that this YouTube guy was not an appointed spokesman of all atheists?
No, it is not as if I didn't already believe that atheism was taking a cultural turn before having heard this professor of philosophy (which is important to note since philosophy shapes culture). Instead, I only said that he had confirmed my suspicisions. Moreover, since I limited my scope to some factions of atheists , then I need not consider whether he is a spokesman for all atheists.
SophistiCat
10-27-2008, 05:24 PM
Well, do you really think that a broad international grouping such as "people who do not believe in a god or gods" could become the basis of a common culture? Do theists have a common culture, which can be identified by something more than the fact that they recognize one or more deities?
The YouTube guy clearly over-reached, or else he was expressing his wish, rather than reflecting on an actual situation or prognosticating.
Ray Moscow
10-27-2008, 05:31 PM
Yes, all theist and wooists are united in an indivisible, monolithic culture of "people who believe in invisible, undetectable stuff regardless of contrary evidence".
borealis
10-28-2008, 04:28 AM
Luvvamike. A tiny number of atheists join groups in order to try to have some voice and some communication with likeminded people in an overwhelmingly religious culture and immediately a subset of theists get the idea a rival religion is being created before their very eyes.
Soon, fellow Atheists of the Red Sign, we must have a schism or two and perhaps burn a few Pagans or toss some Christians to lions.
rigorist
10-28-2008, 04:58 AM
RRS, anybody?
A good source of lulz in their attempts to create some sort of atheist fundamentalism.
borealis
10-28-2008, 05:07 AM
RRS, anybody?
A good source of lulz in their attempts to create some sort of atheist fundamentalism.
Exactly. Cat-herding for indoctrination purposes only works in the short term, and only then if the cats aren't very smart.
RRS does strike me as of the same breed as Dr. Shooks.
mac_philo
10-28-2008, 08:54 PM
The professor precribes the atheist as a person that has various epistemic norms, ethical values such as "responsibility for our lives" and similar hopes for others.
I watched up until this part, hoping there would be a charitable interpretation. There isn't one.
What he said was really wrong and embarrassing. You can be an atheist for any reason, or no reason at all. It requires absolutely no epistemic or ethical norms.
Whether this was important to his larger project there, I'm unsure, because 5:00 was quite enough of that for me.
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