The Logical Problem of Evil

[wiploc]

Anybody think that the LPoE doesn't work? Or that the ontological, cosmological, or teleological arguments do work?

crc

[FreezBee]

By 'The Logical Problem of Evil', do you mean that there cannot be a good god, if there is evil?

- FreezBee

[wiploc]

By 'The Logical Problem of Evil', do you mean that there cannot be a good god, if there is evil?

- FreezBee

He can be omnipotent and omniscient, or omniscient and omnibenevolent, or omnipotent and omnibenevolent, but he can't be all three---at least he can't be all three if evil exists.

crc

[Febble]

How do you want to define Evil?

[wiploc]

How do you want to define Evil?

The opposite of good. That which is opposed by benevolence.

Actually, the above is all I need for the PoE to work, but I don't want to be unforthcoming, so:

Evil is the sources of unhappiness. By extension, evil is unhappiness itself. Thus, the problem of evil is often called the problem of suffering. Good is the sources of happiness, or, by extension, the happiness itself. Benevolence is the desiring of good.

Evil is not to be conflated with sin. Sin is doubt and disobedience of god. Evil is the punishment for sin.

But if you think you can defend against the PoE better with another definition of evil, that's fine with me.

[FreezBee]

Evil is the punishment for sin.

An interesting definition of 'evil', if I may say so.

But then what is the argument? A benevolent god will punish the sinners, where's the contradiction in that.


- FreezBee

[wiploc]

Evil is the punishment for sin.

An interesting definition of 'evil', if I may say so.

.
Aside from its use as a general-purpose intensifier, "Whoa, this is some evil strong coffee!" that is the only definition I know.




But then what is the argument? A benevolent god will punish the sinners, where's the contradiction in that.

.
And a just god will forgive everybody and take them all to Heaven?

crc

[FreezBee]

Aside from its use as a general-purpose intensifier, "Whoa, this is some evil strong coffee!" that is the only definition I know.

Well, I've come across a few alternate definitions during my life. But then again, I'm evil old.


And a just god will forgive everybody and take them all to Heaven?

Is there some consealed BSDM allusion in that?


- FreezBee

[wiploc]

Aside from its use as a general-purpose intensifier, "Whoa, this is some evil strong coffee!" that is the only definition I know.

Well, I've come across a few alternate definitions during my life. But then again, I'm evil old.


And a just god will forgive everybody and take them all to Heaven?

Is there some consealed BSDM allusion in that?


- FreezBee

I'd like to hear the other definitions. But not here. This is a debate set-up thread.

No allusion. You said that the good god is the vengeful one, so I pointed out the absurdity of that by saying that the just god is the nice one. But, again, this is a set-up thread, so, if we want to go into this more, we should make another thread.

Unless you think you can defend against the PoE and want to do so in a formal debate. In that case, we're right where we ought to be.

crc

[FreezBee]

I'd like to hear the other definitions. But not here. This is a debate set-up thread.

No allusion. You said that the good god is the vengeful one, so I pointed out the absurdity of that by saying that the just god is the nice one. But, again, this is a set-up thread, so, if we want to go into this more, we should make another thread.

Oh, sorry; I just wanted to know, what the LPoE was supposed to be.

Unless you think you can defend against the PoE and want to do so in a formal debate. In that case, we're right where we ought to be.

Ummm, well, thanks for the offer, but I'm afraid that I might loose my Platinum membership of CoS, if I engage in a defence of God.

So, I respectfully decline :notworthy:


- FreezBee

[wiploc]

Oh, sorry; I just wanted to know, what the LPoE was supposed to be.

A benevolent god would want to eliminate evil. An omnibenevolent god would totally and unconflictedly want to eliminate evil. An omnibenvolent god would eliminate evil if he could. The only question is whether it could.

A powerful god could reduce evil. An all-powerful god would be able to completely eliminate evil. The only question is whether it would want to.

An omnipotent omnibenevolent god would want to eliminate evil, and would be able to eliminate evil. So, if such a god existed, there would be no evil.

Therefore, if there is evil, no such god exists.

And then we throw in omniscience too, just in case somebody wants to argue that god is strong enough to eliminate evil, and he wants to eliminate evil, but he doesn't know how to go about it. (Being omnipotent, he has the power to become all-knowing, but---not being all-knowing---he hasn't thought of it yet.)

So that's the PoE. We sometimes call it the LPoE (logical problem of evil) to distinguish it from the EPoE (evidentiary problem of evil). Proponents of the EPoE tend to inexplicabably concede that the LPoE doesn't work (because of the free will defense, or something). Having conceded the LPoE, they then defend this varient of the PoE:

"Okay," (they say), "there might be a tad or a smidgeon or a token amount of evil even there were a tri-omni god. But that doesn't mean the world would be this overwhelmingly rich in evil. All this wealth of evil is just way too much to be compatible with a tri-omni god."

That makes sense to me too. I shouldn't disparage it. But it's like getting out of an army tank in order to attack with a toothpick. The LPoE is compelling, is unanswerable, is bulletproof. The EPoE is much easier for a sophistic theist to parry.