Drug legalization/decriminalization

[Quizalufagus]

At this point I believe it's clear that the U.S. War on Drugs has been a huge, expensive failure. Is there any reason to continue the current U.S. drug policy? If not, what should be the new drug policy? Legalization? Decriminalization?

[His Noodly Appendage]

Well, it's not going to happen. There's too much money at stake.

There's a *vast* amount spent on maintaining the WoD infrastucture (from military ops to prison catering), and the agencies involved aren't going to give that up without outright civil war.

There's an even vaster amount of money at stake from the producers and suppliers - being illegal lets them jack the prices up many, many orders of magnitude higher than they could sell the stuff for on an open market.

Then there's the knock-on spending from all the drug-related theft, prostitution, etc.

If you *did* manage to pull the plug on the WoD, the economy would flatline within a week. Not that you'd ever know, as you'd be marked for death by a dozen different interests before you could even think of proposing legislation.

[Esocyn]

A slow path to legalization. Decriminalize them first, but couple that with springing up clinics, shooting galleries and rehab centers that are free or affordable to those without the resources. Create a campaign that goes over, objectively, the pros and cons of drug use - like the Erowid project, for example.

If you immediately legalize it, with no information outlet and no adequate medical help, then it's likely that people are more susceptible to using it irresponsibly and ignorantly which can possibly lead to more deaths or harmful usage being attributed to drugs that could've been prevented. At least, in my opinion. That would only give unnecessary ammo to the anti-drug parent groups and will let them shrill even louder.

Note, though, I didn't deal with the problem of taking it out of the gang's hands. It's really not as simple as I stated above, as you have that extra variable - which is a big hurdle.

[Rathpig]

It starts with cannabis which may be slowly decriminalized within our lifetimes because it is widely and safely used while it's illegality makes no practical sense because it exposes the lie, but I have to agree with HNA on the overall reality.

Illegal drugs are an industry. Cops and politicians love drugs more than any junkie because it allows them to make relatively safe careers where substance users are political prisoners of a system which desires violation. It thrives on people who violate the law and encourages the poor to continue violations until they are legally enslaved to the state. The system tells itself they are saving society while it really fuels organized crime and violence. The villain is the state and no one dares voice that fact.

It is a horrible destructive charade which eats at the core of society but it forces increasing tax revenue and justifies the police state. And it could get much worse. In the future look for an increasing number of substances to become illegal as science advances further into the secrets of the human mind.

Alteration of human perception is relatively easy, and will never be contained. This is why anyone incarcerated for "drugs" is really a political prisoner. Drugs are essentially a political crime.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Well, I'd argue that addiction is effectively enslavement; once addiction proper sets in, drug-seeking behaviour is more about pain-avoidance than pleasure-seeking, so selling to addicts is pretty much cash-farming with slave labour. People's own bodies are the enforcers, and you simply dole out protection from the beatings they give in return for vast amounts of money.

Exploiting the living fuck out of people this way is not on, and I think steps *should* be taken to prevent it.

However, the way they've gone about this is epic fail, and not to be condoned in the slightest.

[Rathpig]

Well, I'd argue that addiction is effectively enslavement; ...... However, the way they've gone about this is epic fail, and not to be condoned in the slightest.

Shouldn't this situation be handled medically by professionals trained to understand and treat substance addiction. It can be rather effectively argued that prohibition has actually increased both the availability and dangers of the addictive illegal substances with no medical input or quality control. Alcohol prohibition in the U.S. created very similar parallels.

If anything, substance abuse should never be a criminal problem. Especially, as you indicated, in light of the horrible failure that has been demonstrated.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Like you say, prohibition is a pathetic failure. However, just because an activity cannot be effectively prohibited without massively backfiring, it doesn't follow that it's not reprehensible, and that *some* form of prevention is not desirable. I don't think it's right that people with no scruples should be allowed to effectively enslave the foolish, unhindered.

I wonder what would happen if the stuff were not banned outright, but merely banned from sale, like phenacetin, or rat-poison lollipops.

[Rathpig]

The key to controlling drug use is education. And actual real education not the propagandistic scare tactics.

Speaking for the U.S., this is a country hopelessly tied into some form of drug. The legal drugs are pushed by the corporations and the governments in an almost surreal fashion. Watching television is a relative pharmacopoeia of what can only be seen as legal, just ask your doctor, recreational drugs. Of course the "recreation" is called "quality of life", but the distinctions are very blurry.

Government schools in the U.S. push psychoreactive substances onto parents as if it is common place to drug your kids into submission with only cursory professional input. The school sends the kids to the school doctor with a school recommendation for a drug based on a general diagnosis and your kid is doing legal dope. Ironically being told that illegal dope will kill you dead the first time you try it if you don't become a prostitute first.


It is a sad fucking game of mind control.


Nothing will happen in my opinion except to make the situation worse. Cannabis may be an exception because police departments are being forced to ignore minor use and minor amounts because the courts are neck-deep in serious drugs and the related crime. Whatever happens worldwide, the U.S. is fucked. This is the largest illegal and legal drug in the world.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Heh. I've seen the public advertisements for prescription drugs you have over there.

It's fucking terrifying. The very idea of advertising products to people who are neither qualified nor licensed to assess their suitability is utterly unthinkable over here.

[Ray Moscow]

Heh. I've seen the public advertisements for prescription drugs you have over there.

It's fucking terrifying. The very idea of advertising products to people who are neither qualified nor licensed to assess their suitability is utterly unthinkable over here.

It used to be illegal and "unthinkable" in the US, too. Things change, especially when the insane are left in charge of the asylum long enough.

[Rathpig]

And advertisement is the tip of the iceberg. Many physicians and hospitals are a "tied-house" much like traditional UK pubs - only the patient is not told this up front. You will be prescribed, both over-the-counter and controlled, drugs because they are contracted to a supplier. Specific medical need is often a secondary concern because contract compliance takes precedence.

The "legal" drug situation in the U.S. is so bad that any hope for sanity in the illegal drug problem is nonexistent.

[seebs]

Well, I'd argue that addiction is effectively enslavement; once addiction proper sets in, drug-seeking behaviour is more about pain-avoidance than pleasure-seeking, so selling to addicts is pretty much cash-farming with slave labour. People's own bodies are the enforcers, and you simply dole out protection from the beatings they give in return for vast amounts of money.

Exploiting the living fuck out of people this way is not on, and I think steps *should* be taken to prevent it.

However, the way they've gone about this is epic fail, and not to be condoned in the slightest.

Agreed on both counts. I think there is probably sound reason to do something about addictive drugs, and some drugs may actually be dangerous enough that they should just plain be outlawed.

However, the current situation is ridiculous.

[Rathpig]

One major problem with addcitive drugs, again this may be only common in the United States, is the blanket way in which they are dealt with by the government. Of course it is horribly tragic for a healthy teenager to become addicted to opiates, but we treat the substance in the exact same manner for someone that is 80 and suffering from chronic pain.

If an elderly person spends their last decade of life addicted to heroin but living a relatively pain-free existence this should be an acceptable compromise.

Finally some states have realized that cannabis can be used in this manner, but the fucking Federal government has to protect the injustice industry so the will of the people is ignored. Stupid are we as a nation.


I think the television series House, M.D. tried to deal with this issue and ended up merely blurring the difference between willful addiction and necessary use. Even more tragic this was over Vicodin (hydrocodone) which is not really that big of a deal for someone with chronic pain. The writers portray Vicodin as something much more dangerous and powerful than it really is in common use.


Function of the patient should always be the main goal. If that comes at the price of addiction then that is merely a neutral side-effect. Addiction as a recreational side-effect should be dealt with medically. None of this should ever enter the realm of criminal enforcement.