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Christina
03-08-2008, 10:50 PM
New York Times, March 1, 2008 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/us/01cathedral.html?ex=1205038800&en=10d0a4903f7a850b&ei=5070&emc=eta1)

This minister painted the word ETERNITY in huge red letters on his roof, and the city is cracking down on him for violating their commercial sign ordinance.

The battle between the city and the church appears to come down to two essential issues: is the message of eternity a commercial one, and is the roof sign a nuisance so grand that the government must intervene?

Mr. Nimmons’s view is that his message is not commercial, and therefore not subject to the city ordinance. All he is selling, he argues, is faith.

“I just want people to go to God,” he said. “I don’t care where.”

On the first point, the city and the pastor clearly disagree.

“It’s arguable that he is trying to draw attention to his church so he is trying to garner new members,” Mr. Green said. “We are not engaged in content-based enforcement. He can say whatever he wants. Our problem with the sign is that we don’t permit signs regardless of content on top of a building.”

Douglas W. Kmiec, a professor of constitutional law at Pepperdine University, said Mr. Nimmons’s position seemed more plausible.

“I would think it would be a mistake to conclude the word ‘eternity’ is proposing a commercial transaction,” Mr. Kmiec said, “even if one hopes for salvation.”

Mr. Nimmons said that he did not have money to pay hundreds of dollars in potential fines, but that he was willing to go to jail.

“The message is worth standing up for,” he said. “And worth dying for.”

I suppose eternity would have to be worth dying for, but given that his main argument is that no one will see it, dying seems a bit dramatic.

Octavia
03-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Much as I hate to say it, I'm going to have to side with Mr. Melodrama. As long as he's paying for it, he should be able to paint whatever the hell he wants on his roof. "Eternity" just isn't commercial. It's dumb, but it's not commercial.

Christina
03-09-2008, 09:04 PM
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand I live in an area with some of the strictest land use regulations in California so I'm used to sign ordinances because we have a slew of them. We got in big trouble for painting an even more innocuous thing on the roof of the homeless shelter and only a few people could even see it. From a land use perspective it doesn't bother me any more than any other land use regulation and far less than some do.

That leaves me with just the issue of whether or not painting a sign on a church saying 'Eternity' is any different than someone painting 'used cars for sale' on the roof of their car lot if they both violate the same ordinance. I suppose the difference is that you probably don't have to pay to believe that you got some eternity out of the deal and you would have to pay for the car. I don't think it meets the definition of commercial either, but without seeing the ordinance I don't know if it prohibits rooftop signs on residential or assembly hall properties also, or if it couches it in terms of advertising. A lot of places zone assembly buildings differently than either residential or commercial uses. Technically I would think that if it applied to non-commercial buildings, lit-up santa and the reindeer wouldn't be making personal appearances on rooftops at xmas either.

The 800# Gorilla
03-09-2008, 09:34 PM
I have a question. What if this person was to spell the word "Eternity" interwoven in the shingles of the roof. I have seen farms with the name of the farm done that way.

Christina
03-09-2008, 10:38 PM
Here, they would say that if he didn't include it in the re-roof plans then the permit is revoked unless he agrees to remove it, or hit him with a code violation for a re-roof without a permit. Fees would rack up until he paid them, and they'd record the violation against his title so that he couldn't get any other permits and would have to fix it and pay the fines before he could sell it. If the neighbors were complaining to elected officials a lot, they'd order an abatement themselves if he refused to fix it and then everyone would probably be in court for years. In other words, everyone would spend a whole lot of time and money and he would get to keep his roof until the end of all of the appeal processes. He'd probably die of old age first. I don't know what would happen somewhere sane.

(and yes, Garnet, I recently did a land use project ;) )

Febble
03-09-2008, 11:57 PM
This guy got into the same trouble in Oxford. He won, though.

http://www.shiptonblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/shark1.jpg

Garnet
03-10-2008, 12:03 AM
(and yes, Garnet, I recently did a land use project ;) )

*grins in recognition*