Do you think Christians can think and talk rational?

[Latinijral]

Do you think Christians can think and talk rational?

I make this question because of what I've read so far at some A-theist forums.

Any thoughts?

:)

[Christina]

As an atheist, I don't think that there is a rational explanation for anything that includes supernatural entities or causes, but I think that theists are capable of thinking as rationally as anyone else is about other things. Some atheists are exceedingly rational about most factual things but are capable of being completely irrational about personal issues.

[Latinijral]

As an atheist, I don't think that there is a rational explanation for anything that includes supernatural entities or causes,

Don't you think that is better to say: there is not STILL a rational explanation? Isn't that more rational?:)


but I think that theists are capable of thinking as rationally as anyone else is about other things. .

If the Christian belief is just a matter of faith .....do you think faith is not part of human being?



Some atheists are exceedingly rational about most factual things but are capable of being completely irrational about personal issues.

......and some theists are exceedingly rational about most factual things but are capable of being completely irrational about personal issues.

:cool:

[Resident Troll]

Yes.

[Droopy]

On matters where they aren't required to push aside rationality and go with "faith" or "mysterious ways", yes, Christians are perfectly capable of rational thought and talk.

[Richard]

As a Christian, Yes.

[Christina]

Don't you think that is better to say: there is not STILL a rational explanation? Isn't that more rational?:)
Maybe it's a language difference, but I think that 'still' is unnecessary in that sentence. The fact that there isn't a rational explanation now doesn't preclude the possibility that there may be one in the future.

If the Christian belief is just a matter of faith .....do you think faith is not part of human being?
It appears to me to be part of being human for some people and not for others, but one of the evolutionary biologists or psychologists would be better equipped to answer that than I am. We'd probably have to define 'faith' first to be able to discuss it clearly and be sure that we're talking about the same thing. What does the word faith mean to you?

[dug_down_deep]

Of course they can. Much of foundational western philosophy and science was developed by Christians.

[Latinijral]

Maybe it's a language difference, but I think that 'still' is unnecessary in that sentence. The fact that there isn't a rational explanation now doesn't preclude the possibility that there may be one in the future.


Hmmmm..it seems to me a dogmatic and fundamentalist answer.
It is like saying: there is no God.


We'd probably have to define 'faith' first to be able to discuss it clearly and be sure that we're talking about the same thing. What does the word faith mean to you?

The same thing you experiment about the future of your forum.
:)

[Latinijral]

Of course they can. Much of foundational western philosophy and science was developed by Christians.
Interesting.

:)

[Ian Nerr]

The human mind is not inherently rational. We have to learn to think clearly. Obviously, some people are more rational than others but all of us are irrational at times.

[Febble]

The human mind is not inherently rational. We have to learn to think clearly. Obviously, some people are more rational than others but all of us are irrational at times.

Actually, that's probably not true, depending on what you mean by "rational". The ability to infer cause and effect, and to be puzzled when cause and effect relationships are violated seems to be pretty innate, and can be observed in infants.

[Ian Nerr]

Actually, that's probably not true, depending on what you mean by "rational". The ability to infer cause and effect, and to be puzzled when cause and effect relationships are violated seems to be pretty innate, and can be observed in infants.

Our common sense is effective but is not guided strictly by logic. Many of our natural assumptions are quite wrong.

What I was saying is that all of us are influenced by our emotions and other factors and we all make mistakes in our thinking.

[Flying Buttress]

I would agree with that.

[dug_down_deep]

Interesting.

:)
Why interesting?

I should add that I have heard no rational argument for faith, or for believing in the resurrection of Jesus.

[chesswooog]

As a matter of fact, I think only Christians are capable of being rational on all matters.

[David B]

As a matter of fact, I think only Christians are capable of being rational on all matters.

Maybe we could discuss that.

How so?

And what sort of Christian?

Koresh?

The Pope?

Benny Hinn?

Spong?

Any suggestions?

David B

[chesswooog]

Maybe we could discuss that.

How so?

And what sort of Christian?

Koresh?

The Pope?

Benny Hinn?

Spong?

Any suggestions?

David B

As to the sort of Christian I mean, whoever concerns himself entirely with the truth.

And only he who concerns himself entirely with the truth is capable of rationality at all times, since he is both concerned with precision and unwilling to let his desires or emotions dictate what he believes.

[David B]

As to the sort of Christian I mean, whoever concerns himself entirely with the truth.

And only he who concerns himself entirely with the truth is capable of rationality at all times, since he is both concerned with precision and unwilling to let his desires or emotions dictate what he believes.

Oh I see!

An atheist Christian!

David B

[chesswooog]

Oh I see!

An atheist Christian!

David B

Is that like a married bachelor? :)

[RexT]

As to the sort of Christian I mean, whoever concerns himself entirely with the truth.

And only he who concerns himself entirely with the truth is capable of rationality at all times, since he is both concerned with precision and unwilling to let his desires or emotions dictate what he believes."The truth", it sounds so simple, as does precision. But whose truth and to what degree of precision? Yours, mine, or someone else?

[chesswooog]

"The truth", it sounds so simple, as does precision. But whose truth and to what degree of precision? Yours, mine, or someone else?

The truth cannot be possessed, only seen. And only absolute precision is acceptable to one who is of the truth (that is, entirely consumed by it).

[Latinijral]

Why interesting?

Because it was my reaction to your post:
"Of course they can. Much of foundational western philosophy and science was developed by Christians."

I asummed it as a point to Christians.....regarding rationality.


I should add that I have heard no rational argument for faith,

Do you think "faith" should involves a rational argument?

or for believing in the resurrection of Jesus.

If faith is involved.......what can you and I do?
:p

[RexT]

The truth cannot be possessed, only seen. And only absolute precision is acceptable to one who is of the truth (that is, entirely consumed by it).I don't know if anything can be possessed (depends on your definition of possess), but you're still snot saying what truth or precision is. And now you've thrown in absolute, which also needs defined.

We can take either of those terms and show they have different meanings in different contexts. So I would need to see how you define and use them. At the moment your statements are broad and meaningless. So start with either of those terms and we can go from there.

[David B]

Is that like a married bachelor? :)

It's rather like some pretty eminent self avowed Christians like John Spong, ex bishop of Durham Jenkins and Don Cuppitt.


David B

[chesswooog]

I don't know if anything can be possessed (depends on your definition of possess), but you're still snot saying what truth or precision is. And now you've thrown in absolute, which also needs defined.

We can take either of those terms and show they have different meanings in different contexts. So I would need to see how you define and use them. At the moment your statements are broad and meaningless. So start with either of those terms and we can go from there.

The truth is that which gives you the impression that argument is meaningful. Self-evidently, you would not be arguing unless you thought you had the correct (true) position. I don't think I need to define precision, especially since you displayed an understanding of its opposite when you accused me of making "broad" statements.

I've never really understood the coy "but I'm not following" routine by skeptics. It's one thing to really be in need of clarification, but it's quite another to simply pretend as if one is in ignorance because one does not like where the argument is headed.

Kindly do not waste my time with further requests for clarification you clearly do not require.

[chesswooog]

It's rather like some pretty eminent self avowed Christians like John Spong, ex bishop of Durham Jenkins and Don Cuppitt.


David B

An "atheist Christian" makes as much sense as a married bachelor. Whoever calls himself by such a label is obviously not restricting himself to actual definitions.

[David B]

An "atheist Christian" makes as much sense as a married bachelor. Whoever calls himself by such a label is obviously not restricting himself to actual definitions.

Judge for yourself. I'm not sure that he actually calls himself an atheist Christian, but he has been so called by others.

http://www.doncupitt.com/doncupitt.html

David B

[Jobar]

Is that like a married bachelor? :)

An II thread about Anitra, a Christian atheist (http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=91730)

[stumpjumper]

I don't think there's anything inherently irrational about Christian metaphysics, so, I would say yes.

[Barbarian]

No one is able to think and talk in a rational manner all the time. Everyone seems to have his or her own reason-overriding pet topics. However, it certainly looks to me like Christians have Christianity as this kind of topic: I have yet to meet a single Christian who appeared to be fully reasonable when discussing Christianity. Then again, it may be a matter of appearances only.