SHAPIRO: Does that suggest that if you compare women who are not caretakers, who aren't raising children or looking after elderly parents, to men, you will find closer to equal pay than you would in the general population?
GOLDIN: You certainly do find that. And you find that using data for the U.S., and you find that using data for Scandinavian countries that have incredibly good data that you can really follow people year after year. And you can actually follow them at the event of having a child.
So she finds that much of the gap is due to women needing 'temporal flexibility,' aka predictable schedules and not working crazy hours every week. Women are expected to not only earn a pay check these days, but also do a lot more of this "family" type of work, which is why they require that flexibility in the first place. There's also plenty of other research about gendered steering into different fields starting in grade school, and even when you account for all of these other factors, you're still left without equal pay for equal work.
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SHAPIRO: But to what extent is discrimination also a factor, that women are just paid less than men? If you look at, you know, the Lilly Ledbetter case that came before the Supreme Court, that seemed like an outright case of men make one amount and women make less.
GOLDIN: There's certainly cases of explicit bias. On average, when we measure these differences, we do find a residual gap. And in certain cases, we would feel very comfortable as researchers in saying this is discrimination. But it's very, very hard to do that because it's hard to find the smoking guns.
I'm a historian as well as an economist. And in the past, we really could find smoking guns. People would actually say, I pay women less than men. We don't find that anymore. So we have to really search for the smoking guns. I know they're there. I know that there is discrimination. How much is there - probably not that much.
AllRightMeow
05-19-2016 08:56 PM
lol. Look at all that shit I typed for nothing
brugroffil
05-19-2016 09:01 PM
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lol. Look at all that shit I typed for nothing
AllRightMeow
Posts: 5,505
brugroffil
Posts: 16,286
:noo:
schneibler elf
05-19-2016 09:03 PM
It sure is a mystery where "Berniebro" comes from
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk 2
Testycalibrated
05-19-2016 09:08 PM
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There are some parallels.
Of course there are some. But to put the n-word on the level of "cunt" is just classic, over-compensated liberal idiocy.
I really hate using "the N word" to replace the word nigger. It's not voldemort. The power in a word like cunt or nigger lies in the ability to use it to trigger a stereotype response in the listener. That stereotype is the real issue. If you use the word cunt, you tap into the listener's stereotypes just the same as if you use the word nigger. The gradual realization of the power of the second stereotype led to the alternate word choice of 'the N word '. That hasn't happened with cunt. But the stereotype has a mimetic quality nevertheless. By considering it not a big deal, you can't help validating the stereotype to some degree.
It is demeaning to women even if they don't care. Hopefully we will get to a point where those stereotypes are diluted to the point where they no longer make a difference in society. But so far, the human rights equal rights movements are barely a hundred years old in a historical context that is much longer. We still have lots of vestiges of the old values hanging around and some blatant straight up examples of it still being held in total by some people. Until it fades to a historical curiosity, it seems like a fairly small request to be a little selective about language.
Maybe that's not a reason to hate on someone who uses the words but once it's brought to an individual's attention, the choice becomes a little more reflective of narcissistic intent in the moment. Not that that's always a bad thing. Still, it seems worth applying as a tool for self analysis.
TySixtus
05-19-2016 09:21 PM
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It's a religion
Such a sad, tired line that you trot out every time you go into an SJW!!!! induced meltdown.
SHAPIRO: Does that suggest that if you compare women who are not caretakers, who aren't raising children or looking after elderly parents, to men, you will find closer to equal pay than you would in the general population?
GOLDIN: You certainly do find that. And you find that using data for the U.S., and you find that using data for Scandinavian countries that have incredibly good data that you can really follow people year after year. And you can actually follow them at the event of having a child.
So she finds that much of the gap is due to women needing 'temporal flexibility,' aka predictable schedules and not working crazy hours every week. Women are expected to not only earn a pay check these days, but also do a lot more of this "family" type of work, which is why they require that flexibility in the first place. There's also plenty of other research about gendered steering into different fields starting in grade school, and even when you account for all of these other factors, you're still left without equal pay for equal work.
:
SHAPIRO: But to what extent is discrimination also a factor, that women are just paid less than men? If you look at, you know, the Lilly Ledbetter case that came before the Supreme Court, that seemed like an outright case of men make one amount and women make less.
GOLDIN: There's certainly cases of explicit bias. On average, when we measure these differences, we do find a residual gap. And in certain cases, we would feel very comfortable as researchers in saying this is discrimination. But it's very, very hard to do that because it's hard to find the smoking guns.
I'm a historian as well as an economist. And in the past, we really could find smoking guns. People would actually say, I pay women less than men. We don't find that anymore. So we have to really search for the smoking guns. I know they're there. I know that there is discrimination. How much is there - probably not that much.
I guess "probably not that much" is the best you can hope for, but you sure will cling to it.
Evil Squirrel Overlord
05-19-2016 09:46 PM
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lol. Look at all that shit I typed for nothing
No worries it will stay in archives until the heat death of the universe. Perhaps someday a sentient being will quickly scan it over.
AllRightMeow
05-19-2016 09:48 PM
Well, it's not that great a post so I kinda hope not
daap-umop-bnp
05-19-2016 09:49 PM
I read that whole thing but just to make myself feel like I'm not alone. It worked!
aw shit did i miss a bunch of Dear Muslima concern trolling about how "why is 'dick' ok as an insult and not 'pussy'???" is a legit question and making parallels to asking the same about "cracker" and "nigger" is disparaging to the REAL victims of bigotry?
Well, it's not that great a post so I kinda hope not
no, it was good, for religious apologetics i mean
TySixtus
05-19-2016 11:44 PM
The fact that conversations can so reliably bring the same old arguments to the forefront every time is a great example of why they aren't worth having. You're all convinced you're right, and I'm convinced you're all idiots on the topic.
ETA: The religious metaphor is perfectly apt, considering the how these same arguments are brought to bear in the same way, with the same disaffected snark, and the same certainty and self-righteousness. Blah blah blah, yawn, tysexist, etc.
ETA2: Plus the extremism, the lack of any moderation in the position no matter the evidence, the magic words, the special phrases used, the same rote formulation of all the same talking points. It might as well be catechism.
fleet-footed Urban Youth
05-19-2016 11:48 PM
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ETA: The religious metaphor is perfectly apt, considering the how these same arguments are brought to bear in the same way, with the same disaffected snark, and the same certainty and self-righteousness. Blah blah blah, yawn, tysexist, etc.
that goes two ways tho, dude.
TySixtus
05-19-2016 11:51 PM
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ETA: The religious metaphor is perfectly apt, considering the how these same arguments are brought to bear in the same way, with the same disaffected snark, and the same certainty and self-righteousness. Blah blah blah, yawn, tysexist, etc.
that goes two ways tho, dude.
Not in this case it doesn't. There's a side amendable to reason and facts, and a side that routinely lies and exaggerates problems for political expediency.
fleet-footed Urban Youth
05-19-2016 11:52 PM
interesting, most true believers see things that way.
TySixtus
05-19-2016 11:53 PM
Okay
fleet-footed Urban Youth
05-19-2016 11:54 PM
anyway all i'm saying is that you're not really cooking up anything fresh here so if "the same arguments brought to bear in the same way, with the same disaffected snark, and the same certainty and self-righteousness" is your standard, this applies to your contributions as well from where i am sitting.
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