The 11 Commandments of TR Mafia Redux

ravenok · 04-24-2011, 11:14 PM

Guap suggested after the Assassin's Creed mafia game that maybe it's time to revisit these rules of thumb and talk about them some more.

:

This is a set of basic guidelines for mafia strategy. It is not for people who know what they're doing and have their heads in the game. It is for people that are new, lazy, inattentive, crazy, forgetful, dumb, overly experimental, have an annoying need to be a hero, or haven't had coffee yet today. The list is not exhaustive, and most of the rules are not absolute. It is only meant to be a default style and a mental anchor, to help people avoid making the most embarassing and preventable mistakes over and over. We've also tried to make it simple, and easy to remember or refer to.

1. KEEP TRACK OF WHO IS CLEARED, why and how much. There may not be anyone in the game who can set you straight when you screw it up on day 4. Except scum.

2. Major specials with no counterclaims can be considered provisionally cleared.

3. Minor and unusual specials with no counterclaims can be considered not cleared.

4. Vig - if you aren't sure who is scum, then consider killing a player you know scum would want around at endgame. But DON'T kill cleared players.

5. Seer - view the mayor and difficult to read players who are likely to be alive by mid to late game. Leave clear hints about your views in case you get killed before you out.

6. Doc - protect the mayor on night 1 or 2. Ask yourself who you would kill if you were scum.

7. Town - do not lynch-vote cleared players.

8. Scum - you must get townies lynched in order to win.

9. Scum - don't vote as a bloc unless it's endgame and you will win (not that this would ever happen...)

10 Scum - you must look less scummy than the N most scummy looking town players, where N is the number of town players who must be lynched for scum to reach parity

11. Serial Killer - you're fucked. Have fun with it.

You may be concerned that adhering to certain, publicly-stated guidelines makes you somewhat predictable and therefore vulnerable in the game. And of course that's true. However, we've tried to choose rules that are always or usually a good idea, and are likely to stay that way no matter how people modify their strategies. You also may feel these things are obvious and that no one needs reminding of them, or that anyone who does is going to play like shit no matter what. And there's probably a lot of truth to that. But I think there are a fair number of players who are borderline a fair amount of the time, and that for them a list of simple reminders like this could well make the difference between playing badly and playing OK.

Lastly, you may be wondering why the hell you should be listening to me of all people, or who I am to advise everyone on this. And if I were you, I'd be wondering the same thing. That's why I made sure to consult with ravenscape, who of course is a much better mafia player than I. In fact, this guide is as much for my benefit as for anyone else. Many thanks to her for her contributions. She deserves any credit for it. Any blame for problems with it goes to me.

:

12-17: lynch all liars

:

cockrell's guide on how to play scum:

1) Don't panic.
2) The best response to a first accusation is to ignore it.
3) The best response to a second accusation is furious indignance.
4) Never be afraid to vote for anybody uncleared.
5) Your teammates aren't. Only one of you needs to make it to the end.
6) Sow confusion disguised as fact seeking.
7) Nightkill cleared players.
8) Don't get cute. Conservative high percentage plays lead to victory.

Most of these also apply to town.

When we originally talked about these way back when, some additional commandments were suggested:

- don't trolley track; keep your thinking flexible enough that you will consider all reasonable possibilities

- Use Ockham's razor. usually the simpler explanations are closer to the truth

In addition to these, I think we came up with another commandment in the AC game:

- If you are vanilla town, don't claim unnecessarily. You narrow down the potential list of town players with special roles for the scum team.

Folks acknowledged in the previous discusson that there are times when breaking one of these commandments is pro-town, and that breaking one is not a de facto reason to lynch someone without other scummy looking behaviors.

So how are these holding up? Are they still relevant? Do people follow this stuff? Do people expect others to follow this stuff?

Feck · 04-25-2011, 12:46 AM

Scum rules :

There is a strategy to making scum win ,It's not fun ,I'd never use it

It's a game , for scum it's a team game, one of your major advantages is team work , Talk to each other !

NK low participant players first rather than full on active town players ,because it encourages town players to suspect each other .

Vote for each other as much as possible without actually getting your lynched .

Pay attention to time zones , Raven gets Talkative and honest if she is missing sleep (sorry OB )

It's a game , enjoy ! supporting your team members may lose you the game but it's much more of a happy rush if can and still win (or at least do well )

Oh and don't be angry ,Insane , or too flippant even when town Your persona Owns you not the other way around !

gandalf · 04-25-2011, 12:56 AM

:

Scum rules :

There is a strategy to making scum win ,It's not fun ,I'd never use it

It's a game , for scum it's a team game, one of your major advantages is team work , Talk to each other !

NK low participant players first rather than full on active town players ,because it encourages town players to suspect each other .

Vote for each other as much as possible without actually getting your lynched .

Pay attention to time zones , Raven gets Talkative and honest if she is missing sleep (sorry OB )

It's a game , enjoy ! supporting your team members may lose you the game but it's much more of a happy rush if can and still win (or at least do well )

Oh and don't be angry ,Insane , or too flippant even when town Your persona Owns you not the other way around !

wtf is this shit

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

teeth! · 04-25-2011, 12:59 AM

:

Scum rules :

There is a strategy to making scum win ,It's not fun ,I'd never use it

It's a game , for scum it's a team game, one of your major advantages is team work , Talk to each other !

NK low participant players first rather than full on active town players ,because it encourages town players to suspect each other .

Vote for each other as much as possible without actually getting your lynched .

Pay attention to time zones , Raven gets Talkative and honest if she is missing sleep (sorry OB )

It's a game , enjoy ! supporting your team members may lose you the game but it's much more of a happy rush if can and still win (or at least do well )

Oh and don't be angry ,Insane , or too flippant even when town Your persona Owns you not the other way around !

wtf is this shit

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

u answered ur own question g4nd4lf

ravenok · 04-25-2011, 01:06 AM

Me, I'm going to pay attention to that, because Feck is a formidable scum player. I've never been scum with him. I hope to learn a few things when I do.

teeth! · 04-25-2011, 01:07 AM

"Always scummy as town" is different from "awesome at scum."

Athene · 04-25-2011, 01:09 AM

I would have thought it's best to get rid of full on active town players first because that leaves the quiet ones who are usually the same people who just join on bandwagons after others have done all the hashing out.

ravenok · 04-25-2011, 01:10 AM

:

"Always scummy as town" is different from "awesome at scum."

yes it is. and I'm saying that Feck is formidable scum and mediocre town. I've gotten a little better at spotting his vanilla town game, but it scares the crap out of me trying to figure out if he's a special or scum.

gandalf · 04-25-2011, 01:11 AM

yeah trtown typical endgames often are shizzle, jerome, ld, fuzzy, praying, etc ur usual run of the mill terribad players and anyone whos managed 7 posts in 5 days. plus scum

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gandalf · 04-25-2011, 01:12 AM

:

"Always scummy as town" is different from "awesome at scum."

yes it is. and I'm saying that Feck is formidable scum and mediocre town. I've gotten a little better at spotting his vanilla town game, but it scares the crap out of me trying to figure out if he's a special or scum.

this is at retardalia amirite

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Feck · 04-25-2011, 01:14 AM

LOL I didn't think my town game had risen to mediocre yet

ravenok · 04-25-2011, 01:23 AM

:

"Always scummy as town" is different from "awesome at scum."

yes it is. and I'm saying that Feck is formidable scum and mediocre town. I've gotten a little better at spotting his vanilla town game, but it scares the crap out of me trying to figure out if he's a special or scum.

this is at retardalia amirite

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this game was a change IMO. for the last couple of months I've found the rationalia games to be both more challenging and more enjoyable to play than games at TR.

ratz mafia has improved by miles in a relatively short time. In that same time, TR mafia has gotten worse and worse. We've had something like 3 town wins since December. Town isn't losing because TR scum has been awesome. Town is losing because town sucks.

anyway, cutting off the head(s) and laughing at the twitching headless body of TRTown works at TR.

It doesn't work in games where most of the players, whether noisy or quiet, are competent at the game.

gandalf · 04-25-2011, 01:34 AM

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

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Feck · 04-25-2011, 01:37 AM

i'm learning from TR mafia most of what I'm learning is the clever play , but some is how not to play . I learned to play mafia with one set of players , it's mostly a subjective subliminal game unless you do data analysis on the meta .Some of the town play I've seen here has been horrible (people with more axes to grind to any team spirit). but some has been fucking brilliant ,Teeth and Raven nailed the last game Of course town had a strong player with a major role which helped .

Feck · 04-25-2011, 01:45 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

town players especially those that are thought of as strong players who post a lot tend to be aggressive towards each other in the early game .Docs and body guards tend to protect these players , trackers etc tend to watch these players If Raven (for example ) hasn't been hit with a night action early on then some people start to suspect . NK ing low posters may not remove strong players from the game but it a relatively low risk kill for scum IMHO

Athene · 04-25-2011, 01:47 AM

:

I would have thought it's best to get rid of full on active town players first because that leaves the quiet ones who are usually the same people who just join on bandwagons after others have done all the hashing out.

Actually thinking about it, if you're playing a game where even the weaker players are fairly active and switched on - this would be a good strategy. It probably does work for Feck when he plays at rationalia.

Athene · 04-25-2011, 01:50 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

town players especially those that are thought of as strong players who post a lot tend to be aggressive towards each other in the early game .Docs and body guards tend to protect these players , trackers etc tend to watch these players If Raven (for example ) hasn't been hit with a night action early on then some people start to suspect . NK ing low posters may not remove strong players from the game but it a relatively low risk kill for scum IMHO

You'd think that but in actual fact it rarely ever happens, probably because scum get rid of the people who would ask those sorts of questions.

ravenok · 04-25-2011, 01:51 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

consider how day 3 went in the AC game. the earlier cooperation was gone. dlx and I should not have had much question about whether the other was town at that point IMO. I certainly didn't. But grit wondered if dlx had been recruited, and dlx seriously advanced the idea that I might be the don.

town was starting to tear itself up and self destruct and the main reason was because two strong town players were still alive and that alone was enough to start wifom brewing. this despite the fact that the previous night kills had been completely logical choices of a scum player who was special-hunting.

ravenok · 04-25-2011, 01:57 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

town players especially those that are thought of as strong players who post a lot tend to be aggressive towards each other in the early game .Docs and body guards tend to protect these players , trackers etc tend to watch these players If Raven (for example ) hasn't been hit with a night action early on then some people start to suspect . NK ing low posters may not remove strong players from the game but it a relatively low risk kill for scum IMHO

You'd think that but in actual fact it rarely ever happens, probably because scum get rid of the people who would ask those sorts of questions.

no people do ask those questions. It's just that usually I'm dead before enough people do. In the last game, someone (I think it was Jerome) actually questioned why I was still alive on day 2. This despite my being the mayor. And on day 3, praying brought it up. And dlx said on day 2 that if I was still alive on day 3, it was time to start wondering why.

When I'm town, I come under a butt load of suspicion as the game progresses. If I'm still alive on day 4 I usually have to fight off a serious lynch bandwagon, unless it's obvious that the only reason why I'm still alive is because a half-dozen town specials made themselves targets on day 1 and 2.

ETA this used to be the enviable trajectory of damian's game. when he quit playing, I was somehow slotted into that role - the object of the why-is-so-and-so alive meme.

ravenok · 04-25-2011, 02:03 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

intellectually, I know it is probably good for town to lose a couple of losers early. But, when I'm playing, all I want to do is find and kill scum. if those losers are on my team, they are my team mates.

Athene · 04-25-2011, 02:07 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

town players especially those that are thought of as strong players who post a lot tend to be aggressive towards each other in the early game .Docs and body guards tend to protect these players , trackers etc tend to watch these players If Raven (for example ) hasn't been hit with a night action early on then some people start to suspect . NK ing low posters may not remove strong players from the game but it a relatively low risk kill for scum IMHO

You'd think that but in actual fact it rarely ever happens, probably because scum get rid of the people who would ask those sorts of questions.

no people do ask those questions. It's just that usually I'm dead before enough people do. In the last game, someone (I think it was Jerome) actually questioned why I was still alive on day 2. This despite my being the mayor. And on day 3, praying brought it up. And dlx said on day 2 that if I was still alive on day 3, it was time to start wondering why.

When I'm town, I come under a butt load of suspicion as the game progresses. If I'm still alive on day 4 I usually have to fight of a serious lynch bandwagon, unless it's obvious that the only reason why I'm still alive is because a half-dozen town specials made themselves targets on day 1 and 2.

That's you and you're a bit of a rule unto yourself. Other players don't attract the attention that you do. Guapo, for example, can happily skate along to end game and lead scum to a victory without anyone wondering why he is still around.

Athene · 04-25-2011, 02:09 AM

:

this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it

eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol

town players especially those that are thought of as strong players who post a lot tend to be aggressive towards each other in the early game .Docs and body guards tend to protect these players , trackers etc tend to watch these players If Raven (for example ) hasn't been hit with a night action early on then some people start to suspect . NK ing low posters may not remove strong players from the game but it a relatively low risk kill for scum IMHO

You'd think that but in actual fact it rarely ever happens, probably because scum get rid of the people who would ask those sorts of questions.

no people do ask those questions. It's just that usually I'm dead before enough people do. In the last game, someone (I think it was Jerome) actually questioned why I was still alive on day 2. This despite my being the mayor. And on day 3, praying brought it up. And dlx said on day 2 that if I was still alive on day 3, it was time to start wondering why.

When I'm town, I come under a butt load of suspicion as the game progresses. If I'm still alive on day 4 I usually have to fight off a serious lynch bandwagon, unless it's obvious that the only reason why I'm still alive is because a half-dozen town specials made themselves targets on day 1 and 2.

ETA this used to be the enviable trajectory of damian's game. when he quit playing, I was somehow slotted into that role - the object of the why-is-so-and-so alive meme.

Ha, I was just going to edit my post to say that you've become the new TR mafia damian.

dorothy · 04-25-2011, 02:12 AM

please add:

12. Vanilla Town - out immediately to give as much information to town as possible.

Athene · 04-25-2011, 02:13 AM

:

please add:

12. Vanilla Town - out immediately to give as much information to town as possible.

this is a serious discussion

brugroffil · 04-25-2011, 02:14 AM

:

Ha, I was just going to edit my post to say that you've become the new TR mafia damian.

does he ever play anymore?

04-25-2011, 12:46 AM	#1388606 / #2
Feck Senior Member : Feb 2011 : 778	Scum rules : There is a strategy to making scum win ,It's not fun ,I'd never use it It's a game , for scum it's a team game, one of your major advantages is team work , Talk to each other ! NK low participant players first rather than full on active town players ,because it encourages town players to suspect each other . Vote for each other as much as possible without actually getting your lynched . Pay attention to time zones , Raven gets Talkative and honest if she is missing sleep (sorry OB ) It's a game , enjoy ! supporting your team members may lose you the game but it's much more of a happy rush if can and still win (or at least do well ) Oh and don't be angry ,Insane , or too flippant even when town Your persona Owns you not the other way around ! __________________ Ironic isn't it. Fish are now eating raw Japanese.

04-25-2011, 01:06 AM	#1388621 / #5
ravenok trigger warning Into the West : Mar 2008 : Norton's Empire : 81,531	Me, I'm going to pay attention to that, because Feck is a formidable scum player. I've never been scum with him. I hope to learn a few things when I do. __________________ It's all good fun until somebody loses an eye.

04-25-2011, 01:11 AM	#1388627 / #9
gandalf teh r3t4rd teh pplz champi0n : Feb 2010 : 13,784	yeah trtown typical endgames often are shizzle, jerome, ld, fuzzy, praying, etc ur usual run of the mill terribad players and anyone whos managed 7 posts in 5 days. plus scum Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk __________________ el guapo: gandalf, you are god's gift to mafia; i can be a little aspie rmacfarl: Febble you should listen to Gandalf DeanM: Yes I acknowledge you were right. laughing dog: gandalf has it right rednoise: gandalf is right. AwfulCrawler: I don't blame you for being a complete, utter retard gandalf. You were probably born that way. Mattshizzle: Advice # 1 - post in English instead of Retarded. Schneibster: Do you have any idea how many people have arrogantly told me I was full of shit on the Internet?

04-25-2011, 01:14 AM	#1388631 / #11
Feck Senior Member : Feb 2011 : 778	LOL I didn't think my town game had risen to mediocre yet __________________ Ironic isn't it. Fish are now eating raw Japanese.

04-25-2011, 01:34 AM	#1388639 / #13
gandalf teh r3t4rd teh pplz champi0n : Feb 2010 : 13,784	this is why purging dead weight early is good for tr gamez but feck says the opposite and anyway we never do it eta good for town but feck says scum shld kill them too lol Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk __________________ el guapo: gandalf, you are god's gift to mafia; i can be a little aspie rmacfarl: Febble you should listen to Gandalf DeanM: Yes I acknowledge you were right. laughing dog: gandalf has it right rednoise: gandalf is right. AwfulCrawler: I don't blame you for being a complete, utter retard gandalf. You were probably born that way. Mattshizzle: Advice # 1 - post in English instead of Retarded. Schneibster: Do you have any idea how many people have arrogantly told me I was full of shit on the Internet? Last edited by gandalf; 04-25-2011 at 01:36 AM.

04-25-2011, 01:09 AM	#1388624 / #7
Athene Senior Member : Mar 2008 : England : 4,064	I would have thought it's best to get rid of full on active town players first because that leaves the quiet ones who are usually the same people who just join on bandwagons after others have done all the hashing out.

04-25-2011, 01:37 AM	#1388640 / #14
Feck Senior Member : Feb 2011 : 778	i'm learning from TR mafia most of what I'm learning is the clever play , but some is how not to play . I learned to play mafia with one set of players , it's mostly a subjective subliminal game unless you do data analysis on the meta .Some of the town play I've seen here has been horrible (people with more axes to grind to any team spirit). but some has been fucking brilliant ,Teeth and Raven nailed the last game Of course town had a strong player with a major role which helped . __________________ Ironic isn't it. Fish are now eating raw Japanese.

04-25-2011, 02:12 AM	#1388663 / #23
dorothy like th1nkr but inthe postgame : Aug 2008 : Not in Kansas anymore. : 16,093	please add: 12. Vanilla Town - out immediately to give as much information to town as possible. __________________ Heaven is my judge, not I for love and duty,But seeming so, for my peculiar end; For when my outward action doth demonstrate. The native act and figure of my heart In complement extern, 'tis not long after. But I will wear my heart upon my sleeve For daws to peck at. I am not what I am. - Iago

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