One of the more one eyebrow raising 'what could possibly go wrong?' -

osmanthus · 05-06-2016, 11:15 PM

Ok, but none of the species listed are a concern in Australia.

RAFH · 05-07-2016, 12:43 AM

:

Oh right. Wet herpes carrying feathers.

Don't let them shit as they fly over either.

RAFH · 05-07-2016, 12:48 AM

:

This virus can't live outside carp for long. IIRC it can manage a few days under optimal conditions. That makes it less likely to spread where it's not wanted.

I don't know how exactly thorough the CSIRO's testing was, but they've spent a very long time at it and as AFAIK have tried to consider every possibility. They are well aware of the potential for new introductions to go wrong. The first question they would have asked is "How could this fuck things up?".

So I think it's as safe as it can be, bearing in mind you'll never have 100% cast iron certainty in advance.

And then they ordered pizza and beer!

osmanthus · 05-07-2016, 12:57 AM

Well, they got it right with myxo and calici, so maybe they'll get a hat trick. We'll have the opportunity to find out soon.

RAFH · 05-07-2016, 01:48 AM

:

Well, they got it right with myxo and calici, so maybe they'll get a hat trick. We'll have the opportunity to find out soon.

Are those Aussie types of Pizza or Beer?

osmanthus · 05-07-2016, 04:58 AM

No. They're types of virus.

Monad · 05-07-2016, 08:02 AM

:

Ok, but none of the species listed are a concern in Australia.

That's not the point, it shows firstly that it can persist in a range of non cyprinid species and secondly if it can infect fish as unrelated as carp and sturgeon what's to stop it infecting other types of fish, they seem to be assuming just because Australia doesn't have any cyprinids, and because most herpes viruses are pretty narrow in the range of hosts they infect, it's not going to be a problem.

osmanthus · 05-07-2016, 08:19 AM

Ok, but is it persisting in other species a problem if it's asymptomatic? If it doesn't do anything in those species, it'd be just like zillions of other benign viruses and bacteria in the environment.

As for what's stopping it infecting other fish, if by that you mean in a detrimental manner, it hasn't done that with any of the local fish they've tested. They haven't just assumed it'll be ok because we don't have cyprinids. They actually tested the virus on a range of native fish. They've all been fine. They wouldn't be going ahead with the release otherwise.

Anyway I don't have the expertise to overrule the CSIRO so I'll just have to hope they got this right. They're generally pretty bloody good. The last thing they want is another fuckup. We've had too many of those already, but have managed to fix some with later introductions too (rabbits and prickly pear are pretty much sorted, for all practical purposes).

osmanthus · 05-07-2016, 08:31 AM

Oh and the other factor to consider is that the number of carp currently in our rivers is endangering a range of native species anyway, which is one reason why knocking the carp population back dramatically is seen as a priority.

They also contribute to a lot of erosion. The Murray River used to run clear before carp were introduced.

fredbear · 05-08-2016, 03:20 PM

:

Oh and the other factor to consider is that the number of carp currently in our rivers is endangering a range of native species anyway, which is one reason why knocking the carp population back dramatically is seen as a priority.

They also contribute to a lot of erosion. The Murray River used to run clear before carp were introduced.

When did rabbits get sorted? Last time I was out in SW NSW there were thousands of mix-blind rabbits with the horrible milky shit coming out of their eyes still digging up sheep/roo pasture. Granted it was 16 years ago...

Testycalibrated · 05-08-2016, 05:17 PM

Rabbits have been sorted twice according to the article in the op. They are now back to the verge of being unsorted again though. Rabbits were controlled the same way but they take a concerted effort to keep controlled and no one seems to want to participate.

RAFH · 05-08-2016, 05:30 PM

:

Rabbits have been sorted twice according to the article in the op. They are now back to the verge of being unsorted again though. Rabbits were controlled the same way but they take a concerted effort to keep controlled and no one seems to want to participate.

Typical. On Oahu, North Shore, Kahuku, one of the largest wind turbines ever with a 360' diameter twin blade. I remember watching it spin, taking about 2 seconds to do a revolution. That translates into a tip speed of around 370 mph.

It was really grand. And it generated about 3mw. Pretty much all the time. But the grant ran out and nobody cared and it fell into disuse and was eventually dismantled. The adjacent wind turbine farm suffered pretty much the same fate.

osmanthus · 05-08-2016, 08:53 PM

:

Oh and the other factor to consider is that the number of carp currently in our rivers is endangering a range of native species anyway, which is one reason why knocking the carp population back dramatically is seen as a priority.

They also contribute to a lot of erosion. The Murray River used to run clear before carp were introduced.

When did rabbits get sorted? Last time I was out in SW NSW there were thousands of mix-blind rabbits with the horrible milky shit coming out of their eyes still digging up sheep/roo pasture. Granted it was 16 years ago...

That may have been about the time they introduced calicivirus. Would have to check, but it sounds about right. Myxo was becoming less effective so they found something else to wallop the bunnies again.

And yeah, obviously it's not a perfect solution but it's the best one we've got.

Testycalibrated · 05-08-2016, 09:13 PM

According to the article in the op it is about the that time. Also, they didn't think there would be another virus that would work but the new one showed up right about the right time and right now they are beginning to see resistance to the new one so Oz is fucked.

osmanthus · 05-08-2016, 09:17 PM

No worries, mate. We're used to it being fucked.

RAFH · 05-08-2016, 09:35 PM

:

No worries, mate. We're used to it being fucked.

It is, after all, down under.

RAFH · 05-09-2016, 02:22 PM

I think the lesson here is nothing is permanent, nothing is static, nothing lasts forever. Everything needs attention. Needs maintenance. Needs adjustment to.

The Maginot Line Forts proved that. Though the WW1 forts were nearly completely disarmed, and pretty much unmanned, they were still a major impediment to German invasion, some of them held out despite massive bombardment. But in most cases, the Germans simply went around them. Or in the case of some, simply fell due to a lack of attention.

Anything fixed will fail. Eventually. That's the big lesson from evolution, things either adapt or die. No fort can survive any and all attacks. Eventually the ammunition will run out, the water will run out, the food will run out, the troops will get old and die off, the steel will rust and the concrete will decay. Eventually, nothing will remain.

We've been through a couple of centuries wherein the dream of human domination of everything seemed to be coming true. Particularly that of some specific humans. Often at the expense of all other life forms, including other humans. Those who benefited died long ago. Those who are benefiting from excreting the wastes of their benefit will die long before those wastes come back to haunt the rest of us.

Yeah, so what? Well, it means we have to adapt, and deal with it. Whether we will or not is another issue. If we don't, the next generation will have to, or the one after that. Or, well, humans will cease to exist. At least what we consider humanity.

But look at what we have done, things like HIV and Ebola have been contained. For the most part, nuclear war has been contained. Yeah, NKorea is an issue, but it wouldn't take long to eliminate that threat if it was determined to be necessary. Let the Russians do it.

Climate Change, well, we'll just have to deal with it. Whining, hand wringing, sensationalism won't deal with it. Just have to do so. Yeah, it's likely some very small islander populations will lose there homes. Yes, many cities will face serious issues. Etc, etc, etc. Deal with it. There's literally nothing we can do about the past 200 years of fuck up. After millennia of wandering around being clever apes, we figured out agriculture, then we began to change shit at a high rate. Though not one that was significant either in intensity or extent to make a lot of difference. Then we eventually started to learn enough more to really go at it, about 300 years ago. It was at that point we started to overload the system. Force change faster than the system could deal with it. Now we reap what was sown. We can either deal with it, which is unlikely, or deal with the consequences.

One reason I am looking for a boat. Sail boat, with PV and wind power. Drag line with a turbine. Watermaker. Fish lines. Eventually half to jettison the diesels for steam fired by wood. Plentiful up here in the PNW.

RAFH · 05-09-2016, 04:57 PM

Probably later than sooner. I've got some time.

Though with the current election. I dunno.

fredbear · 05-09-2016, 08:54 PM

Speaking of invasives ... Triple J is doing a segment called "Neighbors from Hell" and one item that come up as a favorite method of pissing off your neighbor is to tie some metal bolts onto the legs of cane toads and throw them on the neighbors tin roof

osmanthus · 05-09-2016, 09:01 PM

Amazing. Someone found a way of making cane toads useful.

borealis · 05-09-2016, 09:38 PM

:

Speaking of invasives ... Triple J is doing a segment called "Neighbors from Hell" and one item that come up as a favorite method of pissing off your neighbor is to tie some metal bolts onto the legs of cane toads and throw them on the neighbors tin roof

Oh lol!

Just evil.

05-09-2016, 02:22 PM	#2647500 / #42
RAFH Robot Architect From Hell : Mar 2008 : Lori's Place. : 32,022	I think the lesson here is nothing is permanent, nothing is static, nothing lasts forever. Everything needs attention. Needs maintenance. Needs adjustment to. The Maginot Line Forts proved that. Though the WW1 forts were nearly completely disarmed, and pretty much unmanned, they were still a major impediment to German invasion, some of them held out despite massive bombardment. But in most cases, the Germans simply went around them. Or in the case of some, simply fell due to a lack of attention. Anything fixed will fail. Eventually. That's the big lesson from evolution, things either adapt or die. No fort can survive any and all attacks. Eventually the ammunition will run out, the water will run out, the food will run out, the troops will get old and die off, the steel will rust and the concrete will decay. Eventually, nothing will remain. We've been through a couple of centuries wherein the dream of human domination of everything seemed to be coming true. Particularly that of some specific humans. Often at the expense of all other life forms, including other humans. Those who benefited died long ago. Those who are benefiting from excreting the wastes of their benefit will die long before those wastes come back to haunt the rest of us. Yeah, so what? Well, it means we have to adapt, and deal with it. Whether we will or not is another issue. If we don't, the next generation will have to, or the one after that. Or, well, humans will cease to exist. At least what we consider humanity. But look at what we have done, things like HIV and Ebola have been contained. For the most part, nuclear war has been contained. Yeah, NKorea is an issue, but it wouldn't take long to eliminate that threat if it was determined to be necessary. Let the Russians do it. Climate Change, well, we'll just have to deal with it. Whining, hand wringing, sensationalism won't deal with it. Just have to do so. Yeah, it's likely some very small islander populations will lose there homes. Yes, many cities will face serious issues. Etc, etc, etc. Deal with it. There's literally nothing we can do about the past 200 years of fuck up. After millennia of wandering around being clever apes, we figured out agriculture, then we began to change shit at a high rate. Though not one that was significant either in intensity or extent to make a lot of difference. Then we eventually started to learn enough more to really go at it, about 300 years ago. It was at that point we started to overload the system. Force change faster than the system could deal with it. Now we reap what was sown. We can either deal with it, which is unlikely, or deal with the consequences. One reason I am looking for a boat. Sail boat, with PV and wind power. Drag line with a turbine. Watermaker. Fish lines. Eventually half to jettison the diesels for steam fired by wood. Plentiful up here in the PNW. __________________ Invent the Future

05-09-2016, 04:57 PM	#2647582 / #43
RAFH Robot Architect From Hell : Mar 2008 : Lori's Place. : 32,022	Probably later than sooner. I've got some time. Though with the current election. I dunno. __________________ Invent the Future

05-09-2016, 08:54 PM	#2647705 / #44
fredbear Junior Lurker : Apr 2008 : Soggy Surburbia : 491	Speaking of invasives ... Triple J is doing a segment called "Neighbors from Hell" and one item that come up as a favorite method of pissing off your neighbor is to tie some metal bolts onto the legs of cane toads and throw them on the neighbors tin roof Last edited by fredbear; 05-09-2016 at 08:59 PM.

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