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03-03-2011, 10:34 PM | #1326136 / #1 | ||
Pleistocene person
: Mar 2008
: London, UK.
: 27,270
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Paleoindian seafaring in America
this is pretty awesome:
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decent short accompanying piece by michael balter in science. well worth a read. a focus on the coastal hypothesis for the peopling of the americas. this is a bit your to resolve it but i think ultimately strong support will mount for it, or some variant of it paper :
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03-03-2011, 11:05 PM | #1326171 / #3 |
Senior Member
: Sep 2008
: L.A.
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Erlandson has published several cool papers on the subject of Paleoindians and coastal living, particularly the whole "kelp highway" hypothesis.
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03-03-2011, 11:22 PM | #1326183 / #4 |
Pleistocene person
: Mar 2008
: London, UK.
: 27,270
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Yes, he's done some interesting work though he's recently been associated with the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis which isn't looking too great at the moment. Still can't get everything right.
I first got interested in coastal stuff when James Dixon gave a talk and discussion in a grad seminar I was in. He wrote this excellent paper: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...b&searchtype=a |
03-04-2011, 06:45 AM | #1326619 / #6 |
Senior Member
TR Pundit
: Oct 2008
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idk, but i'm guessing it's huge, b/c according to wiki, the channel island settlements have the earliest known paleontological evidence for humans in all of north america (13kya), and the fact that humans settled them at all is the earliest evidence for human seafaring in all of the americas.
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03-04-2011, 07:01 AM | #1326626 / #8 | |
trollo trollini trollus est
Commissar
: Mar 2008
: talkrationalo trollenda est
: 51,109
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I mean in terms of routes and technologies used to get here from Asia. |
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03-04-2011, 01:04 PM | #1326764 / #11 |
Pleistocene person
: Mar 2008
: London, UK.
: 27,270
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Well it shows that they had the skills to exploit the resources that would have been necessary to make the coastal route. But they can't strictly speaking directly inform the debate IMO because, as noted in the Balter essay, they are a bit too young. However, Erlandson does make some useful points in this regard in the Balter essay.
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03-07-2011, 12:52 AM | #1329063 / #13 |
Senior Member
: Mar 2008
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The "walking the whole way" hypothesis doesn't really make sense as a singular explanation anyway. Given the access the water, humans will build boats, and the "kelp highway" as a easy food source makes hunting North American large game animals, as would be required by inland migration, a questionable primary means of sustenance.
Interesting thread. |
03-07-2011, 03:43 AM | #1329193 / #14 | |
Senior Member
TR Pundit
: Oct 2008
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to use evolution of language as a rough proxy for the fidelity of folklore, a language develops to the point of losing mutual intelligibility with its mother tongue or related dialects after something on the order of a few hundred to a few thousand years. and after about 10,000, dialects diverge so much that there is no longer any discernible trace of their relationship. and that's language we're talking about, something for which accuracy of transmission from parent to child is important for a lot of practical purposes. folklore, otoh could be butchered left and right, and it wouldn't affect anything. |
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03-07-2011, 04:20 AM | #1329216 / #16 |
Senior Member
TR Pundit
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i'm reading wiki on this now. sounds like an interesting puzzle. ot1h, travelling on foot sounds like the most likely or obvious mode of migration. otoh, the bering strait reflooded about 15.5 kya, and there is no hard evidence of human presence anywhere in the americas before about 13 kya.
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03-07-2011, 07:14 AM | #1329266 / #18 |
Senior Member
TR Pundit
: Oct 2008
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yeah but wiki says according to genetic research all aboriginal americans descend from a small founding population of about 70 individuals. not that only 70 people came across, but there were only 70 whose descendants survive today.
so you're still stuck with having to explain a large population boom, no matter how you say they got here. in fact, it might even be fair to say this eliminates the population as a source of information about land vs. sea migration. |
03-07-2011, 02:37 PM | #1329417 / #19 | |
Senior Member
: Mar 2008
: 21,659
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic...f_the_Americas
Not being a geneticist, and not wishing to delve to deeply into the source material, this seems to open more questions than it answers. Especially since the Wiki article in many places uses secondary sourcing and not primary research. This is especially interesting: :
Last edited by Rathpig; 03-07-2011 at 02:39 PM. |
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03-07-2011, 03:32 PM | #1329483 / #22 |
Senior Member
: Mar 2008
: 21,659
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Obviously, but it would appear to discount frequent small migrations from Asia over an extensive period of time and point to a set period of migration prior to population growth in North America. Would it not?
It would also seem to point to population concentration prior to extensive migration into remote locations since it appears there is a distinction between the indigenous Alaskan population and the rest of North America pointing to a later migration event from Asia into Alaska. (By population concentration I don't mean a single village, but out-migration into extremely remote areas, such as the Amazon, seems unlikely without displaying some diversity as seen in the Alaskan population. This would point to the migration into remote areas being a much later event since population exchange would have been impossible.) |
03-07-2011, 08:14 PM | #1329947 / #23 |
Senior Member
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Anyway, John Hawks has finally added his views on the matter:
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/...ands-2011.html |
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