Math vs Myth: was Math invented by humans, yall?

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 12:07 PM

Hey yall, I seen this here question on the Facebooks, and I reckoned yall would know the answer, or mebbe yall would like arguin over the answer.

:

I have a question for some educated and plain brilliant folks to ponder. I used to debate with my Calc II professor about this. Was math "created/made up" by man, or has it existed since the beginning of time? My contention is it has always existed, my professor's take was that it was created by great minds of our predecessors....I just can't agree with that logic. What say you?

I reckon that math is manmade, technically speakin, as far as creatin symbols to represent numbers and amounts, and what have you. And aint certain forms or methods of math invented by smarty-pants brainiacs over the years? I dunno. I cant even balance my checkbook without a calculator, so...

SkepticTank · 05-21-2015, 01:06 PM

"Was math invented or discovered?" is probably a philosophy question.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 01:08 PM

:

"Was math invented or discovered?" is probably a philosophy question.

Naw, it's a math question.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 01:09 PM

I reckon that the math folks read the math forum and wouldnt be lookin in the Philosophy forum fer a math thread.

pong · 05-21-2015, 01:37 PM

It does sound like an epistemological question and not a mathematics question.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 01:43 PM

:

It does sound like an epistemological question and not a mathematics question.

But it's about the history of math, and how math came to be, and alla that. I dunno why a thread askin about math history would be some lofty examination of philosophy. I mean, it's about math, yall.

buttershug · 05-21-2015, 01:51 PM

:

It does sound like an epistemological question and not a mathematics question.

But it's about the history of math, and how math came to be, and alla that. I dunno why a thread askin about math history would be some lofty examination of philosophy. I mean, it's about math, yall.

It's not about philosophy because it's about a branch of philosophy?

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 01:55 PM

I just wanna know who's right, the feller who sez that math always existed, or the perfessor who sez that great human minds invented it. Yall can just tell me the general consensus on that, we aint gotta switch forums, it's a question about math, and this here's the math forum. Dont you mathy-type folks have a regular general answer fer that kinda question?

pong · 05-21-2015, 02:11 PM

There doesn't seem to be a general consensus. It really is philosophy. There are fields of study called "philosophy of science" and "philosophy of math."

If there is a consensus amongst mathematicians, it's probably, "We don't care about the philosophy." Philosophers would argue scientists and mathematicians have to care as the paradigms make certain metaphysical assumptions about the nature of reality.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 02:12 PM

:

There doesn't seem to be a general consensus. It really is philosophy. There are fields of study called "philosophy of science" and "philosophy of math."

If there is a consensus amongst mathematicians, it's probably, "We don't care about the philosophy." Philosophers would argue scientists and mathematicians have to care as the paradigms make certain metaphysical assumptions about the nature of reality.

allrightythen, that's good enough fer me, I'll give the feller yer answer.

Heinz Hershold · 05-21-2015, 02:35 PM

:

Hey yall, I seen this here question on the Facebooks, and I reckoned yall would know the answer, or mebbe yall would like arguin over the answer.

:

I have a question for some educated and plain brilliant folks to ponder. I used to debate with my Calc II professor about this. Was math "created/made up" by man, or has it existed since the beginning of time? My contention is it has always existed, my professor's take was that it was created by great minds of our predecessors....I just can't agree with that logic. What say you?

I reckon that math is manmade, technically speakin, as far as creatin symbols to represent numbers and amounts, and what have you. And aint certain forms or methods of math invented by smarty-pants brainiacs over the years? I dunno. I cant even balance my checkbook without a calculator, so...

The universe is inherently logical and mathematical and it follows that we, being products of the universe are also logical and mathematical (well, some of us anyway). No, we didn’t invent mathematics; mathematics invented us.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 02:52 PM

I done shared that, too.

Evil Squirrel Overlord · 05-21-2015, 03:21 PM

Naw, math is an abstraction, a way of describing relationships.

woof · 05-21-2015, 03:28 PM

It seems to me that an illogical universe would collapse under the weight of contradictions, and that is why we are now fairly confident that it is a non-magical universe. Maths describes what we discover about these logical relationships.
Because the universe is logical, it comes predictable, at least in terms of probabilities/statistics. And so we have science.

SkepticTank · 05-21-2015, 03:35 PM

:

I just wanna know who's right, the feller who sez that math always existed, or the perfessor who sez that great human minds invented it. Yall can just tell me the general consensus on that, we aint gotta switch forums, it's a question about math, and this here's the math forum. Dont you mathy-type folks have a regular general answer fer that kinda question?

Nobody said anything about moving forums you dummy.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 03:36 PM

ya kinda sounded like it

Non-Euclidean SlapBracelet · 05-21-2015, 07:24 PM

This is basically mathematical platonism vs. fictionalism. Also, see inuitionism. There is no consensus view. You've basically got the view that people have no way to gain knowledge of weird mathematical entities existing outside of spacetime, vs. the view that mathematics is so interwoven into science, that much of science doesn't even make sense, much less could be considered true, if you don't consider mathematics to concern anything real in the world.

Old Dan · 05-21-2015, 11:18 PM

Monad · 05-22-2015, 04:37 PM

:

Hey yall, I seen this here question on the Facebooks, and I reckoned yall would know the answer, or mebbe yall would like arguin over the answer.

:

I have a question for some educated and plain brilliant folks to ponder. I used to debate with my Calc II professor about this. Was math "created/made up" by man, or has it existed since the beginning of time? My contention is it has always existed, my professor's take was that it was created by great minds of our predecessors....I just can't agree with that logic. What say you?

I reckon that math is manmade, technically speakin, as far as creatin symbols to represent numbers and amounts, and what have you. And aint certain forms or methods of math invented by smarty-pants brainiacs over the years? I dunno. I cant even balance my checkbook without a calculator, so...

The guy is an idiot. So humans didn't invent geology because rocks existed already.

uncool · 05-22-2015, 04:45 PM

Saw this recently. https://scientiasalon.wordpress.com/...n-mathematics/

Brother Daniel · 05-26-2015, 05:20 PM

^ ^ That was a fun read, even though parts of it went over my head.

BobCox · 05-26-2015, 10:38 PM

Math was Discovered not Invented by people would be my view.

PerseusOmega9 · 05-27-2015, 03:47 PM

:

This is basically mathematical platonism vs. fictionalism. Also, see inuitionism. There is no consensus view. You've basically got the view that people have no way to gain knowledge of weird mathematical entities existing outside of spacetime, vs. the view that mathematics is so interwoven into science, that much of science doesn't even make sense, much less could be considered true, if you don't consider mathematics to concern anything real in the world.

what do eskimos have to do with the op?

BobCox · 06-14-2015, 04:04 AM

The Melody of Pi - 226 digits - chromatic π base 12 waltz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOaR...ature=youtu.be

Pi like it!

Spode · 06-14-2015, 04:25 AM

Math is an invented language, like Esperanto or Esquimoix.

05-21-2015, 01:06 PM	#2515636 / #2
SkepticTank White Trash Mod: C&T, TIH : Mar 2008 : Houston : 24,524	"Was math invented or discovered?" is probably a philosophy question. __________________ 30. A wise man knows that confidentiality equals profit.

05-26-2015, 05:20 PM	#2517347 / #21
Brother Daniel predisposition to antagonism Kodos the Executioner Mod: HASH, Philo, Math, THC : Jun 2008 : on the shore of the North Atlantic : 15,670	^ ^ That was a fun read, even though parts of it went over my head. __________________ Requiem: Everything we humans do is fully deserving of ridicule and mockery. Without a God to laugh, it falls to us enlightened fools to make up the difference.

05-26-2015, 10:38 PM	#2517437 / #22
BobCox bObCoX : Sep 2011 : Under Your Doormat : 1,872	Math was Discovered not Invented by people would be my view. __________________ Oh sure! Post a Signature in these forums and the next thing you know your identity's been stolen along with your Pants and Wallet.

06-14-2015, 04:04 AM	#2522410 / #24
BobCox bObCoX : Sep 2011 : Under Your Doormat : 1,872	We love patterns The Melody of Pi - 226 digits - chromatic π base 12 waltz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOaR...ature=youtu.be Pi like it! __________________ Oh sure! Post a Signature in these forums and the next thing you know your identity's been stolen along with your Pants and Wallet.

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Messages:

05-21-2015, 01:09 PM	#2515638 / #4
Old Dan Senior Member : Apr 2008 : the holla mohalla : 10,303	I reckon that the math folks read the math forum and wouldnt be lookin in the Philosophy forum fer a math thread.

05-21-2015, 01:37 PM	#2515642 / #5
pong Senior Member : May 2015 : 243	It does sound like an epistemological question and not a mathematics question.

05-21-2015, 01:55 PM	#2515654 / #8
Old Dan Senior Member : Apr 2008 : the holla mohalla : 10,303	I just wanna know who's right, the feller who sez that math always existed, or the perfessor who sez that great human minds invented it. Yall can just tell me the general consensus on that, we aint gotta switch forums, it's a question about math, and this here's the math forum. Dont you mathy-type folks have a regular general answer fer that kinda question?

05-21-2015, 02:11 PM	#2515662 / #9
pong Senior Member : May 2015 : 243	There doesn't seem to be a general consensus. It really is philosophy. There are fields of study called "philosophy of science" and "philosophy of math." If there is a consensus amongst mathematicians, it's probably, "We don't care about the philosophy." Philosophers would argue scientists and mathematicians have to care as the paradigms make certain metaphysical assumptions about the nature of reality.

05-21-2015, 02:52 PM	#2515674 / #12
Old Dan Senior Member : Apr 2008 : the holla mohalla : 10,303	I done shared that, too.

05-21-2015, 03:21 PM	#2515678 / #13
Evil Squirrel Overlord Not the Current Manifestation : Apr 2008 : On Top of Spaghetti : 7,711	Naw, math is an abstraction, a way of describing relationships.

05-21-2015, 03:28 PM	#2515681 / #14
woof - : Feb 2009 : 8,329	It seems to me that an illogical universe would collapse under the weight of contradictions, and that is why we are now fairly confident that it is a non-magical universe. Maths describes what we discover about these logical relationships. Because the universe is logical, it comes predictable, at least in terms of probabilities/statistics. And so we have science.

05-21-2015, 03:36 PM	#2515683 / #16
Old Dan Senior Member : Apr 2008 : the holla mohalla : 10,303	ya kinda sounded like it

05-21-2015, 07:24 PM	#2515752 / #17
Non-Euclidean SlapBracelet Senior Member : Sep 2013 : 2,700	This is basically mathematical platonism vs. fictionalism. Also, see inuitionism. There is no consensus view. You've basically got the view that people have no way to gain knowledge of weird mathematical entities existing outside of spacetime, vs. the view that mathematics is so interwoven into science, that much of science doesn't even make sense, much less could be considered true, if you don't consider mathematics to concern anything real in the world.

05-21-2015, 11:18 PM	#2515861 / #18
Old Dan Senior Member : Apr 2008 : the holla mohalla : 10,303

05-22-2015, 04:45 PM	#2516068 / #20
uncool Senior Member : Jul 2008 : 15,106	Saw this recently. https://scientiasalon.wordpress.com/...n-mathematics/

06-14-2015, 04:25 AM	#2522411 / #25
Spode Reformed Ascetic : Mar 2008 : 2,599	Math is an invented language, like Esperanto or Esquimoix.