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Rat Ring Proposals Propose formal debates/discussions and discuss terms.

 
 
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:27 PM   #2530543  /  #1
punkforchrist
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Default Does God Exist?

I will be defending theism, only a more modest position. The God I am willing to defend is immutable, eternal, indestructible, one, all-powerful, and good.

I will be defending three of the two Ways of St. Thomas Aquinas: the First Way and the Fifth Way, as well as the argument from desire.

There will be four rounds:

Opening Statement: 1,000 words

First Rebuttal: 750 words

Second Rebuttal: 750 words

Closing Statements: 500 words


I'd like very much to debate wiploc if he is available. He's a reasonable and congenial atheist, and I'm just not interested in debating someone who doesn't meet those criteria,

I'm very much interested in engaging in a good debate, and not one where the atheist simply dismisses even the most pertinent theistic argument (to be fair, plenty of theists dismiss atheistic arguments.

Any takers? (Wiploc, you'd be a terrific counterpart!)
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:29 PM   #2530544  /  #2
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I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:31 PM   #2530547  /  #3
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And, you haven't defined god in that op. Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:33 PM   #2530549  /  #4
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I would but I'm not sure I can face the anti-establishment fury that someone named "punkforchrist" would surely possess.
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:49 PM   #2530577  /  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkforchrist View Post
I will be defending theism, only a more modest position. The God I am willing to defend is immutable, eternal, indestructible, one, all-powerful, and good.

I will be defending three of the two Ways of St. Thomas Aquinas: the First Way and the Fifth Way, as well as the argument from desire.

There will be four rounds:

Opening Statement: 1,000 words

First Rebuttal: 750 words

Second Rebuttal: 750 words

Closing Statements: 500 words


I'd like very much to debate wiploc if he is available. He's a reasonable and congenial atheist, and I'm just not interested in debating someone who doesn't meet those criteria,

I'm very much interested in engaging in a good debate, and not one where the atheist simply dismisses even the most pertinent theistic argument (to be fair, plenty of theists dismiss atheistic arguments.

Any takers? (Wiploc, you'd be a terrific counterpart!)
What about intelligent?
Do you take that as "no need to mention"?


And I have found that atheists dismiss theistic arguments after the nth time they hear them and have their refutations ignored.
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:52 PM   #2530579  /  #6
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And you really want to argue that the hole a water puddles is in was designed to fit the water?


Before starting the debate you might want to say if it is a given that humans are on purpose and intentional.
Not everybody argues based on that premise.
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:05 PM   #2530590  /  #7
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So, I accepted. Are you interested?
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:40 PM   #2530599  /  #8
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wiploc last logged in here in October.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:04 PM   #2531358  /  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkforchrist View Post
Does God exist?
[.....]
Any takers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Testycalibrated View Post
So, I accepted. Are you interested?
punkforchrist vs Testy...

I would buy tickets to this.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:07 PM   #2531362  /  #10
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Something else not spelled out is;
Is it going to be "Gods exists vs. God not exist"
or "God exists vs It hasn't been proven that God exists".
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Old 07-21-2015, 01:27 AM   #2531493  /  #11
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I guess this isn't going to happen. Sad.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:24 PM   #2563823  /  #12
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I completely forgot about this. I'm still willing to debate, Testy. We'll throw intelligence in the list of divine attributes. As I said, I'm defending a modest version of theism proper.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:28 PM   #2563824  /  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkforchrist View Post
I completely forgot about this. I'm still willing to debate, Testy. We'll throw intelligence in the list of divine attributes. As I said, I'm defending a modest version of theism proper.
Does your opponent have to show that God does not exist?
Or the more modest that God has not been shown to exist?
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:00 PM   #2563831  /  #14
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I'm in. You post first, right?
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:18 PM   #2563835  /  #15
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I post first. The debate title is in the form of a question, so atheistic arguments are required, not just refutations of my own theistic arguments. The latter is what the rebuttals are for.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:20 PM   #2563838  /  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkforchrist View Post
I post first. The debate title is in the form of a question, so atheistic arguments are required, not just refutations of my own theistic arguments. The latter is what the rebuttals are for.
So you are going for the impossible.
That is cheating but of course you don't see why.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:31 PM   #2563849  /  #17
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I am fine with the conditions. When do you want to start? Also, admins, can I get mod powers in the debate forum to move errant posts to the peanut gallery?
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:35 PM   #2563852  /  #18
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Also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Testycalibrated View Post
I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?
I think this is going to be important. I'm not sure until I see your op, but just in case. Is that ok?
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:19 PM   #2563865  /  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToThePoint View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkforchrist View Post
Does God exist?
[.....]
Any takers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Testycalibrated View Post
So, I accepted. Are you interested?
punkforchrist vs Testy...

I would buy tickets to this.
Send cash to my po box please.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:51 PM   #2563871  /  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Testycalibrated View Post
I am fine with the conditions. When do you want to start? Also, admins, can I get mod powers in the debate forum to move errant posts to the peanut gallery?
You can't Mod your own debate thread.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:59 PM   #2563875  /  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Testycalibrated View Post
I am fine with the conditions. When do you want to start? Also, admins, can I get mod powers in the debate forum to move errant posts to the peanut gallery?
Can't they block everyone but you and PFC from the thread?
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:49 PM   #2563884  /  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttershug View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkforchrist View Post
I post first. The debate title is in the form of a question, so atheistic arguments are required, not just refutations of my own theistic arguments. The latter is what the rebuttals are for.
So you are going for the impossible.
That is cheating but of course you don't see why.
It's not unfair or impossible - unless you admit there are no counter arguments available to Testy.

The debate topic invites arguments and counter-arguments from both sides in support of, or negation of the question.

What would be unfair is to insist that PFC bears the persuasive burden of proof (or probability,) and that all Testy has to do is argue from some default truth position.

Would it be ok for PFC to rest his entire case on the absence of arguments FOR atheism? No, of course not.
He needs to present his own reasons to think God exists and, along the way, he needs to rebut anything Testy presents to the contrary.

As an opponent on an equal footing, Testy has to do exactly the same in an equal and opposite direction.

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Old 09-19-2015, 10:56 PM   #2563887  /  #23
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Gods (probably) exists vs. God (probably) does not exist.
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:06 PM   #2563893  /  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
Gods (probably) exists vs. God (probably) does not exist.
That could work if we ever find a theist that can understand probability.
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Only the madman is absolutely sure.

Robert Anton Wilson
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:07 PM   #2563894  /  #25
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And God probably exists isn't good enough to mess with non-believers lives.
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Only the madman is absolutely sure.

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