SMS and Testy debate the Problem of evil

TestyCalibrate · 03-06-2011, 07:43 PM

This debate will be over whether the PoE (Epicurus' formulation) is really a problem for theology. Testy will begin the debate and will affirm.

Length: 3-5 rounds. I'd say 4 with an opener, 2 arguments and a closer but whatever SMS wants is fine.

Word count: Not too many but no restrictions.

Timing: All posts must be posted within 2 days (not counting weekends) of the previous post.

I'll have an OP ready Mon., and SMS should too. I go first but both initial posts should be posted tomorrow to avoid forever happening during the debate.

Figuer · 03-06-2011, 08:28 PM

~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ · 03-06-2011, 08:47 PM

BWE vs SMS in a debate to the death

TestyCalibrate · 03-06-2011, 08:57 PM

to the pain.

~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ · 03-06-2011, 08:58 PM

it's to the death. i'm going to hunt down and murder the loser in cold blood.

~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ · 03-06-2011, 08:58 PM

eta maybe the winner too!

TestyCalibrate · 03-06-2011, 09:07 PM

Is that a threat?

~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ · 03-06-2011, 09:25 PM

it's a Bart Rob guarantee!

TestyCalibrate · 03-06-2011, 09:34 PM

I might consider throwing the debate in order to lose then. Unless you promise to off the winner too.

Figuer · 03-06-2011, 10:13 PM

Why don't you open a thread called 'Problem of Evil' explain what you think of it, and let the discussion proceed from there, letting SMS particiapte as he pleases? He isn't going to make more sense in a debate, but probably much less.

Figuer · 03-06-2011, 10:31 PM

did it

TestyCalibrate · 03-06-2011, 10:43 PM

Damn u

Rathpig · 03-07-2011, 01:40 AM

I think this debate will be nifty. Likely verbose, boring, and definition defying - but nifty.

Jerome · 03-07-2011, 01:42 AM

I can't handle the truth..

Rathpig · 03-07-2011, 01:54 AM

:

I can't handle the truth..

Ah, but it can handle you.

Jerome · 03-07-2011, 02:02 AM

Rathpig · 03-07-2011, 04:39 AM

SMS · 03-07-2011, 07:18 AM

I dunno about this resolution. Evil is a problem, of course. I grapple with it as an existential problem daily. Whether it is logically incompatible with god is quite a different question.

I also don't have much of an op. My position is just that yours is unsuccessful, and I'll state why when I hear it.

Figuer · 03-07-2011, 12:12 PM

:

I dunno about this resolution. Evil is a problem, of course. I grapple with it as an existential problem daily. Whether it is logically incompatible with god is quite a different question.

No one is claiming it is logically incompatible with 'god', just with the notion of a 'wholly good god'.

SMS · 03-07-2011, 01:47 PM

Same reference, Figgy. Presume I speak of the omnigod.

Figuer · 03-07-2011, 01:57 PM

:

Same reference, Figgy. Presume I speak of the omnigod.

Brahman? The problem of evil applies not to it, since it isn't defined within anthropomorphic moral limits.

Such is the problem of the anthropomorphic deities, such as Zeus or Yaweh.

Rathpig · 03-07-2011, 02:17 PM

The omni-magnificent god must be accepted as intrinsically evil or neutered. Such is the nature of the problem of evil. Alvin Plantinga simply neutered his god, and then for some reason many theists accepted this as solving the problem. The only real solution to the problem is to recognize that gods are an anthropological construct of culture and nothing more. Rather than neutering god to maintain the superstition, remove the superstition and the problem dissolves.

Figuer · 03-07-2011, 02:44 PM

:

The omni-magnificent god must be accepted as intrinsically evil or neutered. Such is the nature of the problem of evil. Alvin Plantinga simply neutered his god, and then for some reason many theists accepted this as solving the problem.

Well, it would have solved the problem if both Plant and Christians accepted that theirs is by necessity a neutral god (and thus their mythological text incoherent). They didn't, and thus the problem remains.

:

The only real solution to the problem is to recognize that gods are an anthropological construct of culture and nothing more. Rather than neutering god to maintain the superstition, remove the superstition and the problem dissolves.

That would refer to the mythologies, the idea of gods is more complex than the label 'superstition'.

Rathpig · 03-07-2011, 02:59 PM

:

Well, it would have solved the problem if both Plant and Christians accepted that theirs is by necessity a neutral god (and thus their mythological text incoherent).

Being the all-creator combined with omni-magnificence requires that neutrality is impossible. To maintain neutrality, the status of all-creator must be removed. This god-construct can't knowingly create evil and claim neutrality.

ksen · 03-07-2011, 03:03 PM

What does omni-magnificent mean?

03-06-2011, 07:43 PM	#1328769 / #1
TestyCalibrate Someone oughta fix the door dummy : Sep 2008 : I've mistaken blueberries for blueberries! : 20,320	SMS and Testy debate the Problem of evil This debate will be over whether the PoE (Epicurus' formulation) is really a problem for theology. Testy will begin the debate and will affirm. Length: 3-5 rounds. I'd say 4 with an opener, 2 arguments and a closer but whatever SMS wants is fine. Word count: Not too many but no restrictions. Timing: All posts must be posted within 2 days (not counting weekends) of the previous post. I'll have an OP ready Mon., and SMS should too. I go first but both initial posts should be posted tomorrow to avoid forever happening during the debate. __________________ Cabin fever.

03-06-2011, 08:28 PM	#1328791 / #2
Figuer Senior Member : Apr 2009 : 28,265	__________________ *Raven's Bane...*

03-06-2011, 08:57 PM	#1328811 / #4
TestyCalibrate Someone oughta fix the door dummy : Sep 2008 : I've mistaken blueberries for blueberries! : 20,320	to the pain. __________________ Cabin fever.

03-06-2011, 09:07 PM	#1328818 / #7
TestyCalibrate Someone oughta fix the door dummy : Sep 2008 : I've mistaken blueberries for blueberries! : 20,320	Is that a threat? __________________ Cabin fever.

03-06-2011, 09:34 PM	#1328827 / #9
TestyCalibrate Someone oughta fix the door dummy : Sep 2008 : I've mistaken blueberries for blueberries! : 20,320	I might consider throwing the debate in order to lose then. Unless you promise to off the winner too. __________________ Cabin fever.

03-06-2011, 08:47 PM	#1328802 / #3
~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ Banned : Mar 2008 : 44,650	BWE vs SMS in a debate to the death

03-06-2011, 08:58 PM	#1328812 / #5
~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ Banned : Mar 2008 : 44,650	it's to the death. i'm going to hunt down and murder the loser in cold blood.

03-06-2011, 08:58 PM	#1328813 / #6
~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ Banned : Mar 2008 : 44,650	eta maybe the winner too!

03-06-2011, 09:25 PM	#1328825 / #8
~~Bartholomew Roberts~~ Banned : Mar 2008 : 44,650	it's a Bart Rob guarantee!

03-06-2011, 10:13 PM	#1328851 / #10
Figuer Senior Member : Apr 2009 : 28,265	Why don't you open a thread called 'Problem of Evil' explain what you think of it, and let the discussion proceed from there, letting SMS particiapte as he pleases? He isn't going to make more sense in a debate, but probably much less. __________________ *Raven's Bane...*

03-06-2011, 10:31 PM	#1328877 / #11
Figuer Senior Member : Apr 2009 : 28,265	did it __________________ *Raven's Bane...*

03-06-2011, 10:43 PM	#1328892 / #12
TestyCalibrate Someone oughta fix the door dummy : Sep 2008 : I've mistaken blueberries for blueberries! : 20,320	Damn u __________________ Cabin fever.

03-07-2011, 01:40 AM	#1329089 / #13
Rathpig Senior Member : Mar 2008 : 21,659	I think this debate will be nifty. Likely verbose, boring, and definition defying - but nifty.

03-07-2011, 01:42 AM	#1329091 / #14
Jerome Life is but a bowl of cherries : Sep 2009 : Pleasant Living : 38,755	I can't handle the truth.. __________________ . . It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong. -Richard Feynman, Nobel laureate in Physics, 1965

03-07-2011, 02:02 AM	#1329099 / #16
Jerome Life is but a bowl of cherries : Sep 2009 : Pleasant Living : 38,755	__________________ . . It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong. -Richard Feynman, Nobel laureate in Physics, 1965

03-07-2011, 04:39 AM	#1329224 / #17
Rathpig Senior Member : Mar 2008 : 21,659

03-07-2011, 07:18 AM	#1329268 / #18
SMS I'm a Sexy and BadAss Catholic : Sep 2008 : blowmevillle : 10,351	I dunno about this resolution. Evil is a problem, of course. I grapple with it as an existential problem daily. Whether it is logically incompatible with god is quite a different question. I also don't have much of an op. My position is just that yours is unsuccessful, and I'll state why when I hear it. __________________ Atheists are stupid.

03-07-2011, 01:47 PM	#1329387 / #20
SMS I'm a Sexy and BadAss Catholic : Sep 2008 : blowmevillle : 10,351	Same reference, Figgy. Presume I speak of the omnigod. __________________ Atheists are stupid.

03-07-2011, 02:17 PM	#1329404 / #22
Rathpig Senior Member : Mar 2008 : 21,659	The omni-magnificent god must be accepted as intrinsically evil or neutered. Such is the nature of the problem of evil. Alvin Plantinga simply neutered his god, and then for some reason many theists accepted this as solving the problem. The only real solution to the problem is to recognize that gods are an anthropological construct of culture and nothing more. Rather than neutering god to maintain the superstition, remove the superstition and the problem dissolves.

03-07-2011, 03:03 PM	#1329450 / #25
ksen Unsullied Master of Coin : May 2009 : New Eden : 39,793	What does omni-magnificent mean? __________________ ". . . organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy" - Matt Taibbi

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