Smart people idiots about philosophy -

Testycalibrated · 03-07-2016, 02:37 PM

:

I wonder what engenders the feeling that it's okay to say dismissive stuff without any real education in philosophy. Nobody but a complete idiot would say analogous things about math or biology or whatever, but it does seem fairly fashionable and well-accepted to say dismissive things about philosophy without really knowing anything about it.

Also, when did this start? I get the impression that philosophy had a lot more cachet a hundred years ago, and it's also had it's most practical successes in recent history.

Practical successes? I'm skeptical.

I get the impression that the circles where it's okay to be dismissive philosophy are much the same as those that are dismissive of religion, for the same reasons.

If you mean that they're internet atheists with an idiotically caricatured view of the subject matter, then I agree.

I blame Richard Dawkins.

gandalf · 03-07-2016, 03:13 PM

:

It meanz ur retraded therz n0 saving u now

Could it be I'm immune to philosophy? Sort of like poetry and Deepak Chopra?

No its pr0lly ur justa idi0t

F X · 03-07-2016, 04:02 PM

For anyone who actually wants an answer, here's a starting point.

:

When people face an uncertain situation, they don’t carefully evaluate the information or look up relevant statistics. Instead, their decisions depend on a long list of mental shortcuts, which often lead them to make foolish decisions. These shortcuts aren’t a faster way of doing the math; they’re a way of skipping the math altogether.

Why Smart People Are Stupid

Most smart people don't even know they have a Bias Blind Spot, and the smarter they are, the more they will get angry over finding out about it.

The really really smart person won't even read any of the above at all, because they are so smart they already know enough to know that they are right, so nothing will change their mind.

F X · 03-07-2016, 04:03 PM

Trust me on this. The smartest person in this topic will post, long before they could have possibly read anything, much less considered the new information.

buttershug · 03-07-2016, 04:30 PM

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hárbarðr, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

buttershug · 03-07-2016, 04:33 PM

:

It meanz ur retraded therz n0 saving u now

Could it be I'm immune to philosophy? Sort of like poetry and Deepak Chopra?

I think it's more like you don't know what philosophy is.
Math is possibly the purest essence of philosophy.

What you think is philosophy is a caricature of what philosophy is.

buttershug · 03-07-2016, 04:35 PM

:

Trust me on this. The smartest person in this topic will post, long before they could have possibly read anything, much less considered the new information.

For some values of smartest.

I think being accurate varies inversely with decisiveness not with intelligence.

Brother Daniel · 03-07-2016, 05:20 PM

I think I once made a post that would kinda fit here.

[rummaging sounds]

Ah. Here it is.

:

To a first approximation, all Serious Thought is philosophy.

But to some pieces of philosophy, we've given other names.

Our academic traditions now treat some of these branches of philosophy (e.g. physics) as being somehow "different" from Philosophy Proper, while at the same time treating some other branches of philosophy (e.g. epistemology) as falling Properly under the rubric of Philosophy. This division is rather arbitrary.

I think it's kinda retarded, or at least unwarranted, to assume, as a feature of our arbitrary naming conventions, that the category "Useful Stuff" happens to be a subset of the category "Areas of philosophy that 21st-century people don't normally call 'Philosophy'".

Now someone might object that it isn't a mere assumption, that it's a conclusion. Well, if you can make the argument for it, you're pretty clearly doing philosophy, and reaching a useful conclusion -- which makes the whole position self-defeating.

F X · 03-07-2016, 05:23 PM

Excelllent

Mike PSS · 03-07-2016, 05:27 PM

:

I think I once made a post that would kinda fit here.

[rummaging sounds]

Ah. Here it is.

:

To a first approximation, all Serious Thought is philosophy.

But to some pieces of philosophy, we've given other names.

Our academic traditions now treat some of these branches of philosophy (e.g. physics) as being somehow "different" from Philosophy Proper, while at the same time treating some other branches of philosophy (e.g. epistemology) as falling Properly under the rubric of Philosophy. This division is rather arbitrary.

I think it's kinda retarded, or at least unwarranted, to assume, as a feature of our arbitrary naming conventions, that the category "Useful Stuff" happens to be a subset of the category "Areas of philosophy that 21st-century people don't normally call 'Philosophy'".

Now someone might object that it isn't a mere assumption, that it's a conclusion. Well, if you can make the argument for it, you're pretty clearly doing philosophy, and reaching a useful conclusion -- which makes the whole position self-defeating.

My father and brother have PhD's.

Hmmmmm....

gandalf · 03-07-2016, 05:34 PM

Once u have a peehdee ur an xpert in phil0s0fee it sayz so on teh piece of paper they give u

Hárbarðr · 03-07-2016, 05:43 PM

:

It meanz ur retraded therz n0 saving u now

Could it be I'm immune to philosophy? Sort of like poetry and Deepak Chopra?

I think it's more like you don't know what philosophy is.

Could be. But am I right about that?

:

Math is possibly the purest essence of philosophy.

That sounds exactly wrong to me.

:

What you think is philosophy is a caricature of what philosophy is.

Spinoza, Wittgenstein and Sartre are a caricature.
OK.

How about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Hárbarðr · 03-07-2016, 05:46 PM

:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hárbarðr, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Cool! Like what? For example?

Hárbarðr · 03-07-2016, 05:48 PM

:

It meanz ur retraded therz n0 saving u now

Could it be I'm immune to philosophy? Sort of like poetry and Deepak Chopra?

No its pr0lly ur justa idi0t

Like Bill Nye!
Wow.

Testycalibrated · 03-07-2016, 06:34 PM

:

It meanz ur retraded therz n0 saving u now

Could it be I'm immune to philosophy? Sort of like poetry and Deepak Chopra?

I think it's more like you don't know what philosophy is.

Could be. But am I right about that?

:

Math is possibly the purest essence of philosophy.

That sounds exactly wrong to me.

:

What you think is philosophy is a caricature of what philosophy is.

Spinoza, Wittgenstein and Sartre are a caricature.
OK.

How about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Some people get what Pirsig was getting at and some people don't. Those that do (and this is obviously a continuum rather than binary) tend to remember some of his ideas, those that don't tend to remember that the artist couple on the other bike made no sense to them.

gandalf · 03-07-2016, 06:35 PM

or m0ar liek heisenberg is pr0lly teh last physicist wh0 was able 2 h0ld a phil0s0fee deb8 at a pr0feshunal level its n0 wonder science haznt managed 2 advance on its publik phil0s0fee since teh mach planck deb8z

*watchez habardashrie g00g0l mach planck quicklee*

buttershug · 03-07-2016, 06:48 PM

:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hárbarðr, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Cool! Like what? For example?

Hoisting oneself on one's petard.

Blueskyboris · 03-07-2016, 07:05 PM

:

I wonder what engenders the feeling that it's okay to say dismissive stuff without any real education in philosophy. Nobody but a complete idiot would say analogous things about math or biology or whatever, but it does seem fairly fashionable and well-accepted to say dismissive things about philosophy without really knowing anything about it.

Also, when did this start? I get the impression that philosophy had a lot more cachet a hundred years ago, and it's also had it's most practical successes in recent history.

It basically started back at the very dawn of philosophy, with Socrates standing around debating with the elite. It wasn't a body of technical knowledge back then, but a personal philosophy which defined the political actor. This is still true to this day. So, in a sense, a duality in philosophy emerged with written text. There is philosophy, and there is Philosophy.

Hárbarðr · 03-07-2016, 08:17 PM

:

It meanz ur retraded therz n0 saving u now

Could it be I'm immune to philosophy? Sort of like poetry and Deepak Chopra?

I think it's more like you don't know what philosophy is.

Could be. But am I right about that?

:

Math is possibly the purest essence of philosophy.

That sounds exactly wrong to me.

:

What you think is philosophy is a caricature of what philosophy is.

Spinoza, Wittgenstein and Sartre are a caricature.
OK.

How about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Some people get what Pirsig was getting at and some people don't. Those that do (and this is obviously a continuum rather than binary) tend to remember some of his ideas, those that don't tend to remember that the artist couple on the other bike made no sense to them.

I do remember other bikers, forgot about them being a couple. Why they were in the story made perfect sense to me. I remember the book as a wordy meandering around why/how people see the world differently that went nowhere. And a teacher agonizing over why he needs to fail his best students.

So. Philosophy?

Hárbarðr · 03-07-2016, 08:22 PM

:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hárbarðr, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Cool! Like what? For example?

Hoisting oneself on one's petard.

Nope. Dreamt that. I'm not sure about "in my philosophy" though. I might not have one.

Testycalibrated · 03-07-2016, 08:31 PM

:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hárbarðr, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Cool! Like what? For example?

Hoisting oneself on one's petard.

Nope. Dreamt that. I'm not sure about "in my philosophy" though. I might not have one.

I bet you do. Let me see, I am going to guess it's generalized but based on something like a positive epistemic attitude towards the content of our best theories and models, recommending belief in both observable and unobservable aspects of the world described by the sciences.

Hárbarðr · 03-07-2016, 08:44 PM

:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hárbarðr, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Cool! Like what? For example?

Hoisting oneself on one's petard.

Nope. Dreamt that. I'm not sure about "in my philosophy" though. I might not have one.

I bet you do. Let me see, I am going to guess it's generalized but based on something like a positive epistemic attitude towards the content of our best theories and models, recommending belief in both observable and unobservable aspects of the world described by the sciences.

Hm. Doesn't resonate. Whatever it is, if anything, trying to capture it with a string of words feels futile. Like building a cloud from bricks.

~~Hobo Brett~~ · 03-08-2016, 03:02 AM

All we are is dust in the wind, dude.

Brother Daniel · 03-08-2016, 03:06 AM

gandalf · 03-08-2016, 04:31 AM

Bart waz no socr8z

03-07-2016, 04:03 PM	#2623439 / #29
F X Too hot to handle : May 2009 : In the real world : 11,190	Trust me on this. The smartest person in this topic will post, long before they could have possibly read anything, much less considered the new information. __________________ This page archived March 26 2022 by F X

03-07-2016, 05:23 PM	#2623477 / #34
F X Too hot to handle : May 2009 : In the real world : 11,190	Excelllent __________________ This page archived March 26 2022 by F X

03-07-2016, 05:34 PM	#2623480 / #36
gandalf teh r3t4rd teh pplz champi0n : Feb 2010 : 13,784	Once u have a peehdee ur an xpert in phil0s0fee it sayz so on teh piece of paper they give u __________________ el guapo: gandalf, you are god's gift to mafia; i can be a little aspie rmacfarl: Febble you should listen to Gandalf DeanM: Yes I acknowledge you were right. laughing dog: gandalf has it right rednoise: gandalf is right. AwfulCrawler: I don't blame you for being a complete, utter retard gandalf. You were probably born that way. Mattshizzle: Advice # 1 - post in English instead of Retarded. Schneibster: Do you have any idea how many people have arrogantly told me I was full of shit on the Internet?

03-07-2016, 06:35 PM	#2623505 / #41
gandalf teh r3t4rd teh pplz champi0n : Feb 2010 : 13,784	or m0ar liek heisenberg is pr0lly teh last physicist wh0 was able 2 h0ld a phil0s0fee deb8 at a pr0feshunal level its n0 wonder science haznt managed 2 advance on its publik phil0s0fee since teh mach planck deb8z watchez habardashrie g00g0l mach planck quicklee __________________ el guapo: gandalf, you are god's gift to mafia; i can be a little aspie rmacfarl: Febble you should listen to Gandalf DeanM: Yes I acknowledge you were right. laughing dog: gandalf has it right rednoise: gandalf is right. AwfulCrawler: I don't blame you for being a complete, utter retard gandalf. You were probably born that way. Mattshizzle: Advice # 1 - post in English instead of Retarded. Schneibster: Do you have any idea how many people have arrogantly told me I was full of shit on the Internet?

03-08-2016, 03:06 AM	#2623755 / #49
Brother Daniel predisposition to antagonism Kodos the Executioner Mod: HASH, Philo, Math, THC : Jun 2008 : on the shore of the North Atlantic : 15,670	__________________ Requiem: Everything we humans do is fully deserving of ridicule and mockery. Without a God to laugh, it falls to us enlightened fools to make up the difference.

03-08-2016, 03:02 AM	#2623750 / #48
~~Hobo Brett~~ Banned : Dec 2015 : 268	All we are is dust in the wind, dude.

03-08-2016, 04:31 AM	#2623773 / #50
gandalf teh r3t4rd teh pplz champi0n : Feb 2010 : 13,784	Bart waz no socr8z __________________ el guapo: gandalf, you are god's gift to mafia; i can be a little aspie rmacfarl: Febble you should listen to Gandalf DeanM: Yes I acknowledge you were right. laughing dog: gandalf has it right rednoise: gandalf is right. AwfulCrawler: I don't blame you for being a complete, utter retard gandalf. You were probably born that way. Mattshizzle: Advice # 1 - post in English instead of Retarded. Schneibster: Do you have any idea how many people have arrogantly told me I was full of shit on the Internet?

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