Um, why is th1nk3r a moderator?

Preno · 04-11-2010, 06:49 PM

Not that I have anything against him, but haven't we learned anything from the last time? IIRC we were all like "oops, mistake, won't happen again" and now we're doing it again.

I don't think th1nk3r is likely to abuse his powers, but there doesn't appear to be any reason why he should have the power to edit and remove other people's posts. The only useful power seems to be the ability to close threads, and he (or, not to single him out, any other person running a Mafia game) can just ask any mod to do that for him.

Also, seeing as how Bart was running a game two weeks ago, I have to ask: did you give him these permissions again, too?

Incidentally, I've just noticed a "Can View IP Addresses" button in the mod permissions page, so I'm setting this to No for mods (unless someone presents a convincing argument to the contrary in the near future).

ravenok · 04-11-2010, 06:53 PM

I set him up as a mafia games forum mod before I started my vacation.

He's needed to move posts back and forth between the game thread and the rules thread. I don't give bart rob full mod abilities any longer since he screwed around with them in an earlier game.

I always click that button "no" when I set up a game moderator. The button has no effect on the abilities of supermoderators.

Preno · 04-11-2010, 06:56 PM

Why does he need the ability to edit and delete posts (which he seems to have)?

Does he get e-mail notifications of reports like Bart Roberts did (and it ended up being a big mess)?

Are we sure there aren't other loopholes that we haven't forgotten about (if we disregard his ability to edit and delete people's posts)?

From "I don't give bart rob full mod abilities any longer since he screwed around with them in an earlier game", I take it you are giving these abilities to other people who haven't so far done this?

halii · 04-11-2010, 06:58 PM

he has the ability to edit and remove posts because he is the mafia GM.

halii · 04-11-2010, 06:58 PM

there was already a report of a mafia game post iirc even though it was a mistake.

Preno · 04-11-2010, 06:59 PM

:

he has the ability to edit and remove posts because he is the mafia GM.

No, I understand that. My question was, why does he need the ability to edit and remove posts as a Mafia GM? Last time, it ended up being a big mess.

th1nk3r · 04-11-2010, 07:01 PM

why do you care?

ravenok · 04-11-2010, 07:01 PM

:

Why does he need the ability to edit and delete posts (which he seems to have)?

Does he get e-mail notifications of reports like Bart Roberts did (and it ended up being a big mess)?

Are we sure there aren't other loopholes that we haven't forgotten about (if we disregard his ability to edit and delete people's posts)?

From "I don't give bart rob full mod abilities any longer since he screwed around with them in an earlier game", I take it you are giving these abilities to other people who haven't so far done this?

It's possible that for GAME reasons, he might need to edit (or even delete) a post. Usually this involves restoring a post that a gameplayer edited (which is against the rules in most games).

He gets a copy of the report via email, but the reports no longer contain people's email addresses. In most cases, it's the GM's discretion as to whether a report should be acted on or not, and the game forum mods leave the thread moderation to the GM unless they are asked for help.

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:01 PM

:

there was already a report of a mafia game post iirc even though it was a mistake.

I see. Did you get an e-mail notification about this, th1nk3r?

halii · 04-11-2010, 07:01 PM

:

he has the ability to edit and remove posts because he is the mafia GM.

No, I understand that. My question was, why does he need the ability to edit and remove posts as a Mafia GM? Last time, it ended up being a big mess.

by "last time" are you referring to the time that bart was mafia GM? because that wasn't "last time".

i've been mafia GM before but i don't remember having access to secret forums or anything like that.

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:03 PM

:

why do you care?

Because the last time this happened there was a big brouhaha about the whole thing and now we appear to be doing it again (minus, as raven notes, the access to member's e-mail addresses).

th1nk3r · 04-11-2010, 07:03 PM

:

there was already a report of a mafia game post iirc even though it was a mistake.

I see. Did you get an e-mail notification about this, th1nk3r?

don't know, i have a separate email address for signing up in forums which i never read.

ravenok · 04-11-2010, 07:03 PM

:

he has the ability to edit and remove posts because he is the mafia GM.

No, I understand that. My question was, why does he need the ability to edit and remove posts as a Mafia GM? Last time, it ended up being a big mess.

by "last time" are you referring to the time that bart was mafia GM? because that wasn't "last time".

i've been mafia GM before but i don't remember having access to secret forums or anything like that.

You didn't. No mafia game forum GM with ordinary mod powers has access to the IC forum or to the staff forums.

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:05 PM

:

he has the ability to edit and remove posts because he is the mafia GM.

No, I understand that. My question was, why does he need the ability to edit and remove posts as a Mafia GM? Last time, it ended up being a big mess.

by "last time" are you referring to the time that bart was mafia GM? because that wasn't "last time".

Yes, I realize that wasn't literally the last mafia game that Bart was GMing.

:

He gets a copy of the report via email, but the reports no longer contain people's email addresses. In most cases, it's the GM's discretion as to whether a report should be acted on or not, and the game forum mods leave the thread moderation to the GM unless they are asked for help.

So how come no-one knows about this (or did anyone)? I had no idea th1nk3r gets a copy of all the reports in the Mafia forum, for example.

th1nk3r · 04-11-2010, 07:05 PM

:

why do you care?

Because the last time this happened there was a big brouhaha about the whole thing and now we appear to be doing it again (minus, as raven notes, the access to member's e-mail addresses).

"Last time" the mistake wasn't what you did but who you did it to, so i don't see the problem.

Also what exactly did Bart do to cause you so much butthurt?

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:06 PM

:

why do you care?

Because the last time this happened there was a big brouhaha about the whole thing and now we appear to be doing it again (minus, as raven notes, the access to member's e-mail addresses).

"Last time" the mistake wasn't what you did but who you did it to, so i don't see the problem.

Huh?

:

Also what exactly did Bart do to cause you so much butthurt?

Huh? I'm not even complaining about Bart itt.

halii · 04-11-2010, 07:08 PM

making the mafia GM a mod is a well-known practice. thinker handles all thread closes and may reopen a thread, etc. since admins and mods play he can't very well key them in to what he's doing and have them do it for him, it would give them an unfair advantage. you don't play, but you also might not be on.

he also may have to edit someone's post if the game calls for it though frankly it almost never happens. it's mostly post moves.

if you were to make it so we couldn't make the mafia GM a mod you'd have to get a mod to not play but also carefully follow the game and prune the thread as needed (plus close and open the thread if needed).

was it thinker who had that one game where someone had a veto they could use up to 20 minutes after the thread closed and then he'd reopen it and veto the decision or whatever? something like that.

ravenok · 04-11-2010, 07:10 PM

:

No, I understand that. My question was, why does he need the ability to edit and remove posts as a Mafia GM? Last time, it ended up being a big mess.

by "last time" are you referring to the time that bart was mafia GM? because that wasn't "last time".

Yes, I realize that wasn't literally the last mafia game that Bart was GMing.

:

He gets a copy of the report via email, but the reports no longer contain people's email addresses. In most cases, it's the GM's discretion as to whether a report should be acted on or not, and the game forum mods leave the thread moderation to the GM unless they are asked for help.

So how come no-one knows about this (or did anyone)? I had no idea th1nk3r gets a copy of all the reports in the Mafia forum, for example.

I don't know why. Once I got the email info out of the report, I turned it back on.

The only active threads in the mafia games forum are the current game threads/peanut galleries. So, the only reports will pertain to the GM's game. Hypothetically someone could report posts from previous games, but the game GM wouldn't care, though he might give the person doing the reporting some shit for spamming his inbox.

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:14 PM

:

making the mafia GM a mod is a well-known practice. thinker handles all thread closes and may reopen a thread, etc. since admins and mods play he can't very well key them in to what he's doing and have them do it for him, it would give them an unfair advantage. you don't play, but you also might not be on.

he also may have to edit someone's post if the game calls for it though frankly it almost never happens. it's mostly post moves.

if you were to make it so we couldn't make the mafia GM a mod you'd have to get a mod to not play but also carefully follow the game and prune the thread as needed (plus close and open the thread if needed).

was it thinker who had that one game where someone had a veto they could use up to 20 minutes after the thread closed and then he'd reopen it and veto the decision or whatever? something like that.

I am mostly objecting to the GM receiving reports that people make and to his rights to edit and delete people's posts. Opening and closing threads seems perfectly legitimate and I suppose there might be a need for moving posts between the rules thread and the game thread, but there doesn't seem to be any reason why a GM should have the right to edit and delete people's posts. They can ask an uninvolved mod to do that for them (also mods can see the edit history, anyway, so...).

eta: or the right to mess with visitor messages

ravenok · 04-11-2010, 07:17 PM

:

making the mafia GM a mod is a well-known practice. thinker handles all thread closes and may reopen a thread, etc. since admins and mods play he can't very well key them in to what he's doing and have them do it for him, it would give them an unfair advantage. you don't play, but you also might not be on.

he also may have to edit someone's post if the game calls for it though frankly it almost never happens. it's mostly post moves.

if you were to make it so we couldn't make the mafia GM a mod you'd have to get a mod to not play but also carefully follow the game and prune the thread as needed (plus close and open the thread if needed).

was it thinker who had that one game where someone had a veto they could use up to 20 minutes after the thread closed and then he'd reopen it and veto the decision or whatever? something like that.

I am mostly objecting to the GM receiving reports that people make and to his rights to edit and delete people's posts. Opening and closing threads seems perfectly legitimate and I suppose there might be a need for moving posts between the rules thread and the game thread, but there doesn't seem to be any reason why a GM should have the right to edit and delete people's posts. They can ask an uninvolved mod to do that for them (also mods can see the edit history, anyway, so...).

eta: or the right to mess with visitor messages

Will you take my word for it that there are times when a GM needs to edit a post for GAME reasons? It doesn't happen often, but when it does happen it's usually to prevent a game getting broken. The edit has to happen quickly or it might as well not happen at all.

And mods/admins are on the honor system not to snoop through the edit history for information that is not available to other players.

Rathpig · 04-11-2010, 07:17 PM

Why would the Mafia GM be given any moderator privileges?
This is a really bad idea to satisfy a small subset of members.

If the game requires a moderator, then an existing moderator, who is hopefully somewhat trustworthy, should be the GM.
This issue should cease immediately.

Also, is it the case that until Preno noticed the problem, you guys just gave IP address information to Th1nk3r?
How fucking stupid is that?

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:18 PM

:

Also, is it the case that until Preno noticed the problem, you guys just gave IP address information to Th1nk3r?
How fucking stupid is that?

No, he didn't have that permission turned on. The GM currently has permissions to:

Edit Posts
Delete Posts
Open/Close Threads
Manage Threads
Edit Threads

Post Announcements
Moderate Posts
Moderate Attachments

Edit Visitor Messages (?)
Delete Visitor Messages (?)
Moderate Visitor Messages (?)

and some minor ones dealing with functions that TR doesn't seem to use (social groups, albums)

Rathpig · 04-11-2010, 07:19 PM

:

Also, is it the case that until Preno noticed the problem, you guys just gave IP address information to Th1nk3r?
How fucking stupid is that?

No, he didn't have that permission turned on.

Well, at least that fuck-up was avoided.

Do any regular moderators have that function?

Preno · 04-11-2010, 07:20 PM

Currently, yeah, I'll turn it off shortly:

:

Incidentally, I've just noticed a "Can View IP Addresses" button in the mod permissions page, so I'm setting this to No for mods (unless someone presents a convincing argument to the contrary in the near future).

ravenok · 04-11-2010, 07:21 PM

:

Why would the Mafia GM be given any moderator privileges?
This is a really bad idea to satisfy a small subset of members.

If the game requires a moderator, then an existing moderator, who is hopefully somewhat trustworthy, should be the GM.
This issue should cease immediately.

Also, is it the case that until Preno noticed the problem, you guys just gave IP address information to Th1nk3r?
How fucking stupid is that?

The GM has moderator privileges in the game forum - and the only active threads are his/her game threads.

GMs do not get access to IP addresses of the game players, or anyone else.

04-11-2010, 06:49 PM	#886895 / #1
Preno TRIGGER WARNING Resident Overlord : Mar 2008 : 10,991	Um, why is th1nk3r a moderator? Not that I have anything against him, but haven't we learned anything from the last time? IIRC we were all like "oops, mistake, won't happen again" and now we're doing it again. I don't think th1nk3r is likely to abuse his powers, but there doesn't appear to be any reason why he should have the power to edit and remove other people's posts. The only useful power seems to be the ability to close threads, and he (or, not to single him out, any other person running a Mafia game) can just ask any mod to do that for him. Also, seeing as how Bart was running a game two weeks ago, I have to ask: did you give him these permissions again, too? Incidentally, I've just noticed a "Can View IP Addresses" button in the mod permissions page, so I'm setting this to No for mods (unless someone presents a convincing argument to the contrary in the near future).

04-11-2010, 06:53 PM	#886905 / #2
ravenok trigger warning Into the West : Mar 2008 : Norton's Empire : 81,531	I set him up as a mafia games forum mod before I started my vacation. He's needed to move posts back and forth between the game thread and the rules thread. I don't give bart rob full mod abilities any longer since he screwed around with them in an earlier game. I always click that button "no" when I set up a game moderator. The button has no effect on the abilities of supermoderators. __________________ It's all good fun until somebody loses an eye.

04-11-2010, 07:01 PM	#886924 / #7
th1nk3r ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs : Jun 2008 : 4,492	why do you care? __________________ /

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Messages:

04-11-2010, 06:56 PM	#886911 / #3
Preno TRIGGER WARNING Resident Overlord : Mar 2008 : 10,991	Why does he need the ability to edit and delete posts (which he seems to have)? Does he get e-mail notifications of reports like Bart Roberts did (and it ended up being a big mess)? Are we sure there aren't other loopholes that we haven't forgotten about (if we disregard his ability to edit and delete people's posts)? From "I don't give bart rob full mod abilities any longer since he screwed around with them in an earlier game", I take it you are giving these abilities to other people who haven't so far done this?

04-11-2010, 06:58 PM	#886913 / #4
halii Arya horseface : Mar 2008 : 18,484	he has the ability to edit and remove posts because he is the mafia GM.

04-11-2010, 06:58 PM	#886917 / #5
halii Arya horseface : Mar 2008 : 18,484	there was already a report of a mafia game post iirc even though it was a mistake.

04-11-2010, 07:08 PM	#886942 / #17
halii Arya horseface : Mar 2008 : 18,484	making the mafia GM a mod is a well-known practice. thinker handles all thread closes and may reopen a thread, etc. since admins and mods play he can't very well key them in to what he's doing and have them do it for him, it would give them an unfair advantage. you don't play, but you also might not be on. he also may have to edit someone's post if the game calls for it though frankly it almost never happens. it's mostly post moves. if you were to make it so we couldn't make the mafia GM a mod you'd have to get a mod to not play but also carefully follow the game and prune the thread as needed (plus close and open the thread if needed). was it thinker who had that one game where someone had a veto they could use up to 20 minutes after the thread closed and then he'd reopen it and veto the decision or whatever? something like that.

04-11-2010, 07:17 PM	#886953 / #21
Rathpig Senior Member : Mar 2008 : 21,659	Why would the Mafia GM be given any moderator privileges? This is a really bad idea to satisfy a small subset of members. If the game requires a moderator, then an existing moderator, who is hopefully somewhat trustworthy, should be the GM. This issue should cease immediately. Also, is it the case that until Preno noticed the problem, you guys just gave IP address information to Th1nk3r? How fucking stupid is that?