Does God Exist?

punkforchrist · 07-17-2015, 04:27 PM

I will be defending theism, only a more modest position. The God I am willing to defend is immutable, eternal, indestructible, one, all-powerful, and good.

I will be defending three of the two Ways of St. Thomas Aquinas: the First Way and the Fifth Way, as well as the argument from desire.

There will be four rounds:

Opening Statement: 1,000 words

First Rebuttal: 750 words

Second Rebuttal: 750 words

Closing Statements: 500 words

I'd like very much to debate wiploc if he is available. He's a reasonable and congenial atheist, and I'm just not interested in debating someone who doesn't meet those criteria,

I'm very much interested in engaging in a good debate, and not one where the atheist simply dismisses even the most pertinent theistic argument (to be fair, plenty of theists dismiss atheistic arguments.

Any takers? (Wiploc, you'd be a terrific counterpart!)

Testycalibrated · 07-17-2015, 04:29 PM

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Testycalibrated · 09-19-2015, 08:35 PM

Also,

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?

I think this is going to be important. I'm not sure until I see your op, but just in case. Is that ok?

punkforchrist · 09-20-2015, 12:17 AM

:

Also,

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?

I think this is going to be important. I'm not sure until I see your op, but just in case. Is that ok?

This might be problematic. While I'm a Christian theist, I'm only arguing for theism proper, e.g. deism. Can God interact with individuals through language? That depends on what you mean. God communicates to individuals through what has been made. However, I won't be arguing for miracles, e.g. the resurrection of Jesus. Maybe we can debate that at another time. The arguments I'm defending presuppose that God intervenes in the universe. The First Way alone necessitates that He is the source of change.

woof · 09-20-2015, 12:40 AM

:

Also,

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?

I think this is going to be important. I'm not sure until I see your op, but just in case. Is that ok?

This might be problematic. While I'm a Christian theist, I'm only arguing for theism proper, e.g. deism. Can God interact with individuals through language? That depends on what you mean. God communicates to individuals through what has been made. However, I won't be arguing for miracles, e.g. the resurrection of Jesus. Maybe we can debate that at another time. The arguments I'm defending presuppose that God intervenes in the universe. The First Way alone necessitates that He is the source of change.

Here is a clue if you want knowledge, and not just the ass-water like what you get from "philosophers" like Tommie Aqua-arse. Don't pre-suppose anything.
If you believe in something, try to disprove it.

punkforchrist · 09-20-2015, 12:48 AM

:

Also,

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?

I think this is going to be important. I'm not sure until I see your op, but just in case. Is that ok?

This might be problematic. While I'm a Christian theist, I'm only arguing for theism proper, e.g. deism. Can God interact with individuals through language? That depends on what you mean. God communicates to individuals through what has been made. However, I won't be arguing for miracles, e.g. the resurrection of Jesus. Maybe we can debate that at another time. The arguments I'm defending presuppose that God intervenes in the universe. The First Way alone necessitates that He is the source of change.

Here is a clue if you want knowledge, and not just the ass-water like what you get from "philosophers" like Tommie Aqua-arse. Don't pre-suppose anything.
If you believe in something, try to disprove it.

It's funny that you're trying to get under my skin. Good luck.

Lion IRC · 09-20-2015, 08:52 AM

:

Also,

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?

I think this is going to be important. I'm not sure until I see your op, but just in case. Is that ok?

This might be problematic. While I'm a Christian theist, I'm only arguing for theism proper, e.g. deism. Can God interact with individuals through language? That depends on what you mean. God communicates to individuals through what has been made. However, I won't be arguing for miracles, e.g. the resurrection of Jesus. Maybe we can debate that at another time. The arguments I'm defending presuppose that God intervenes in the universe. The First Way alone necessitates that He is the source of change.

Here is a clue if you want knowledge, and not just the ass-water like what you get from "philosophers" like Tommie Aqua-arse. Don't pre-suppose anything.
If you believe in something, try to disprove it.

woof! RELAX.
He is doing his opponent a favor.
Better they should both - for the sake of the argument/debate - agree in advance on some presuppositions about the nature of the divine entity being discussed. PFC is stating the bleeding obvious that it should be presupposed that if/since God exists, then evidence of same would presumably involve at least some intervention (theophany).

Drosophila Melanogaster · 10-19-2015, 08:59 AM

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

To be fair, I think he's defined his magic man sufficiently to be able to pin down which one he's talking about just by giving him the proper noun appellation (as vague as that actually is), in which case he's also presented enough that this debate will take exactly two words to refute, since he'ws specifically imbued him with 'all power'.

Iron chariots.

Next!

Atheistoclast · 10-25-2015, 09:37 PM

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

That which can and must exist.

If it is possible for God to exist, he must necessarily exist.

Atheists have no response for this logic.

buttershug · 10-25-2015, 09:45 PM

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

That which can and must exist.

If it is possible for God to exist, he must necessarily exist.

Atheists have no response for this logic.

But that does not say that God is sentient.
Or has volition.

Atheistoclast · 10-26-2015, 02:16 AM

:

But that does not say that God is sentient.
Or has volition.

If it is possible for God to be sentient, and have volition, then it necessarily follows that he is.

facebook164 · 10-26-2015, 05:01 AM

:

But that does not say that God is sentient.

Or has volition.

If it is possible for God to be sentient, and have volition, then it necessarily follows that he is.

So you have some new argument for this?
Because there isnt any existing argument for it that is worth the paper(or bits) it is written on...

Hárbarðr · 10-26-2015, 08:36 AM

:

But that does not say that God is sentient.
Or has volition.

If it is possible for God to be sentient, and have volition, then it necessarily follows that he is.

But is it possible?
You think it is. Why? How?

Is it possible that a thing "which can and must exist" is not sentient?
If it is, does it necessarily follow that it is not sentient?

Is there anything we know with certainty "must" exist?

woof · 10-26-2015, 01:00 AM

:

I'll do it. First define god. We have to use an agreed upon definition.

That which can and must exist.

If it is possible for God to exist, he must necessarily exist.

Atheists have no response for this logic.

Ha ha, that old chestnut of Anselm's?

"id quo nihil maius cogitari possit"

That isn't Anselm using logic to prove anything, that was Anselm getting people to chase their own tails!

Testycalibrated · 07-17-2015, 04:31 PM

And, you haven't defined god in that op. Is god personal? Can god interact with individuals through language? Can god physically intervene in the universe?

pong · 07-17-2015, 04:33 PM

I would but I'm not sure I can face the anti-establishment fury that someone named "punkforchrist" would surely possess.

buttershug · 07-17-2015, 05:49 PM

:

I will be defending theism, only a more modest position. The God I am willing to defend is immutable, eternal, indestructible, one, all-powerful, and good.

I will be defending three of the two Ways of St. Thomas Aquinas: the First Way and the Fifth Way, as well as the argument from desire.

There will be four rounds:

Opening Statement: 1,000 words

First Rebuttal: 750 words

Second Rebuttal: 750 words

Closing Statements: 500 words

I'd like very much to debate wiploc if he is available. He's a reasonable and congenial atheist, and I'm just not interested in debating someone who doesn't meet those criteria,

I'm very much interested in engaging in a good debate, and not one where the atheist simply dismisses even the most pertinent theistic argument (to be fair, plenty of theists dismiss atheistic arguments.

Any takers? (Wiploc, you'd be a terrific counterpart!)

What about intelligent?
Do you take that as "no need to mention"?

And I have found that atheists dismiss theistic arguments after the nth time they hear them and have their refutations ignored.

buttershug · 07-17-2015, 05:52 PM

And you really want to argue that the hole a water puddles is in was designed to fit the water?

Before starting the debate you might want to say if it is a given that humans are on purpose and intentional.
Not everybody argues based on that premise.

Testycalibrated · 07-17-2015, 06:05 PM

So, I accepted. Are you interested?

ToThePoint · 07-20-2015, 09:04 PM

:

Does God exist?
[.....]
Any takers?

:

So, I accepted. Are you interested?

punkforchrist vs Testy...

I would buy tickets to this.

buttershug · 07-20-2015, 09:07 PM

Something else not spelled out is;
Is it going to be "Gods exists vs. God not exist"
or "God exists vs It hasn't been proven that God exists".

Testycalibrated · 09-19-2015, 09:19 PM

:

Does God exist?
[.....]
Any takers?

:

So, I accepted. Are you interested?

punkforchrist vs Testy...

I would buy tickets to this.

Send cash to my po box please.

Brother Daniel · 07-17-2015, 06:40 PM

wiploc last logged in here in October.

Testycalibrated · 07-21-2015, 01:27 AM

I guess this isn't going to happen. Sad.

Lion IRC · 10-08-2015, 06:21 PM

:

I guess this isn't going to happen. Sad.

07-17-2015, 04:27 PM	#2530543 / #1
punkforchrist Senior Member : Jun 2009 : Texas : 103	Does God Exist? I will be defending theism, only a more modest position. The God I am willing to defend is immutable, eternal, indestructible, one, all-powerful, and good. I will be defending three of the two Ways of St. Thomas Aquinas: the First Way and the Fifth Way, as well as the argument from desire. There will be four rounds: Opening Statement: 1,000 words First Rebuttal: 750 words Second Rebuttal: 750 words Closing Statements: 500 words I'd like very much to debate wiploc if he is available. He's a reasonable and congenial atheist, and I'm just not interested in debating someone who doesn't meet those criteria, I'm very much interested in engaging in a good debate, and not one where the atheist simply dismisses even the most pertinent theistic argument (to be fair, plenty of theists dismiss atheistic arguments. Any takers? (Wiploc, you'd be a terrific counterpart!)

07-17-2015, 06:40 PM	#2530599 / #23
Brother Daniel predisposition to antagonism Kodos the Executioner Mod: HASH, Philo, Math, THC : Jun 2008 : on the shore of the North Atlantic : 15,670	wiploc last logged in here in October. __________________ Requiem: Everything we humans do is fully deserving of ridicule and mockery. Without a God to laugh, it falls to us enlightened fools to make up the difference.

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Messages:

07-17-2015, 04:33 PM	#2530549 / #16
pong Senior Member : May 2015 : 243	I would but I'm not sure I can face the anti-establishment fury that someone named "punkforchrist" would surely possess.