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View Poll Results: I agree to a ceasefire so that we can sort rules out
Yes 48 85.71%
Yes (the poll needs two options for vBulletin to accept it) 8 14.29%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:35 AM   #343067  /  #1
Death Of Rats
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Exclamation CEASEFIRE!!!!!!!

CEASEFIRE!!!!!!!

OK, we now have civil war.

So, before TR completely self-destructs - let's ...

Stop. Right. Now.


This is a freethought forum It is dedicated to rational argument. And yet we have a community of 500 or so rational adults drawn up into fighting positions all over the internet.

There are some in Town Hall, fighting hand-to-hand with post moves and ugly words.

There are some holed up in IC, not daring to come out.

There are some huddled in blankets on other boards, waiting for news from the Home Front, or cheer-leading from the other side of the server.

There are self-bannees, hiding in socks. There are charred bodies in the Charred Remains.

There are some brave souls out in OSD, calling for carpet bombing,

There are others lurking in seekrit caves.

There are anguished moderates with hands trembling over the nuclear button.

There are admins lurking in PMs.

There are underground railways.

There are trolls under the bridge.


So:

Shall we have some schnapps?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Right, that's better.

Now we hear ourselves talk. Because talking is what we need to do.

There are real problems on this board, and we need to fix them. A lot of those problems have arisen from deep mistrust - distrust of members by staff; distrust of staff by members; distrust of staff by admins; distrust of members by admins; distrust of admins by staff; distrust of members by members.

But this board was always a home to a community. The community's borders are fluid, and it grows and moves, and migrates to different boards. But there is something that unites us, or passions would not be running as high as they are.

So we need to call a truce.

And possibly an amnesty.

We need a clean start.

So here is our suggestion:

For three weeks
  • There will be no bans.
  • There will be no trollposts.
  • There will be no use of the word "lulz" on any part of this board.
  • There will be no references to old injuries.
  • There will be no whingeing about inconsistent moderation
  • There will be no moved posts without consent of posters
  • There will be no fuck yous
  • There will be no with all due respects.
  • There will be no more recalls
If you agree, vote yes.

And during this ceasefire, we will work on:
  • A streamlined Charter
  • Clear rules
  • More representative staffing
  • Greater transparency
  • More consistent moderation
And anything else that we, the members of this community think we need to get TR back on its feet. Which, above all, means talking to each other and listening to each other.

Because we all want a good board. What we are fighting about is how to get there.

So cast your votes for the ceasefire and let's get to work.

Post, and read.. We can do it.

Febble, ravenscape, umop apisdn w,I

TR admins.

Last edited by Pingu; 01-13-2009 at 07:44 AM. Reason: fix ambiguity
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:47 AM   #343071  /  #2
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Question: what, exactly, do you plan to do when the ceasefire is broken by somebody.
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Next, I don't know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. But whatever it is, it hasn't stopped me from sucessfully supporting my points of view.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:49 AM   #343072  /  #3
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I should elaborate: you say no moving posts without the consent of the poster and no "fuck yous".

Say I decide to test your resolve by posting "fuck yous" in TH and by also refusing to grant permission for my posts to be moved. What then?
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Next, I don't know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. But whatever it is, it hasn't stopped me from sucessfully supporting my points of view.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:51 AM   #343073  /  #4
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Well, the post stays and you look like a wally
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:53 AM   #343075  /  #5
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In all due respect, that lacks teeth.
Also, Osmanthus is a lulz-meister.

ETA, Okay, well, let's get on with it. Set out a course of tasks.
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Last edited by deadman_932; 01-13-2009 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:57 AM   #343076  /  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
Well, the post stays and you look like a wally
So in practice how will this differ from the current situation, apart from the posts not being moved to TCH or TCR?

Note the use of the term "in practice". It's important.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cultsmasher View Post
Next, I don't know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. But whatever it is, it hasn't stopped me from sucessfully supporting my points of view.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:57 AM   #343077  /  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmanthus View Post
I should elaborate: you say no moving posts without the consent of the poster and no "fuck yous".

Say I decide to test your resolve by posting "fuck yous" in TH and by also refusing to grant permission for my posts to be moved. What then?
You are tried by the international court of justice for war crimes?

Just take it for what it is. If people break the cease fire then there is obviously no cease fire. I agree in principle, so if the staff agree to abide by this then I will also.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:58 AM   #343078  /  #8
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Same here. Enough is enough. Time to get our shit together.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:00 AM   #343081  /  #9
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in.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:02 AM   #343083  /  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadman_932 View Post
In all due respect, that lacks teeth.
Also, Osmanthus is a lulz-meister.

ETA, Okay, well, let's get on with it. Set out a course of tasks.
Well, I've asked dug to liaise with you and Jet Black.

Maybe we need a workshop forum.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:03 AM   #343084  /  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlov's Dog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by osmanthus View Post
I should elaborate: you say no moving posts without the consent of the poster and no "fuck yous".

Say I decide to test your resolve by posting "fuck yous" in TH and by also refusing to grant permission for my posts to be moved. What then?
You are tried by the international court of justice for war crimes?

Just take it for what it is. If people break the cease fire then there is obviously no cease fire. I agree in principle, so if the staff agree to abide by this then I will also.
Thanks, PD.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:05 AM   #343086  /  #12
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I dunno about a workshop. Drinks would be nice, though. Whatever it takes. There's no sense in losing a potential forum.

Here's an immediate task: gather together any good ideas that people remember from the past few weeks or months or whatever and start sticking them in the "Suppository Thread." That'll be a start.

We need all the good ideas or potentially good ideas that we can get. Workgroups (if that's what's meant by workshops) would be fine, but they should be open. Also can we clean up some of the less-immediately-useful threads ? This place is like a party-house the morning after
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Last edited by deadman_932; 01-13-2009 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:07 AM   #343087  /  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Of Rats View Post
CEASEFIRE!!!!!!!

OK, we now have civil war.

So, before TR completely self-destructs - let's ...

Stop. Right. Now.


This is a freethought forum It is dedicated to rational argument. And yet we have a community of 500 or so rational adults drawn up into fighting positions all over the internet.
<snipped wannabe war drama>

FFS, this level of unnecessary hysterical drama does not belong in a post claiming rational thought. (Before anyone chimes in, it's not humorous.) A clear statement a/o outline would have been better. Attempting to sustain a high level of drama (which is useful as a distraction) rather than actually pay attention to problems which have come to light will exacerbate the situation.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:07 AM   #343088  /  #14
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And there's no need to "work on a streamlined charter", Lizzie. You already have one. That job has been done.
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Originally Posted by cultsmasher View Post
Next, I don't know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. But whatever it is, it hasn't stopped me from sucessfully supporting my points of view.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:10 AM   #343092  /  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmanthus View Post
And there's no need to "work on a streamlined charter", Lizzie. You already have one. That job has been done.
Excellent.

OK, next item....
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:12 AM   #343093  /  #16
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mod/staff procedurals. that's big on the list.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:13 AM   #343095  /  #17
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Sounds like a plan.

I'm in.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:13 AM   #343096  /  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Of Rats View Post
CEASEFIRE!!!!!!!

OK, we now have civil war.

So, before TR completely self-destructs - let's ...

Stop. Right. Now.


This is a freethought forum It is dedicated to rational argument. And yet we have a community of 500 or so rational adults drawn up into fighting positions all over the internet.
<snipped wannabe war drama>

FFS, this level of unnecessary hysterical drama does not belong in a post claiming rational thought. (Before anyone chimes in, it's not humorous.) A clear statement a/o outline would have been better. Attempting to sustain a high level of drama (which is useful as a distraction) rather than actually pay attention to problems which have come to light will exacerbate the situation.
Well, we certainly want to pay attention to problems which have come to light.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:13 AM   #343098  /  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadman_932 View Post
mod/staff procedurals. that's big on the list.
Thanks.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:14 AM   #343099  /  #20
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Rules. Write them and enforce them. "Don't be a jerk" was a noble if naive attempt. Get rid of it and start bullets.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:16 AM   #343101  /  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Febble View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by osmanthus View Post
And there's no need to "work on a streamlined charter", Lizzie. You already have one. That job has been done.
Excellent.

OK, next item....
I fished it out and stuck it up for comment before it goes for a vote.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:16 AM   #343102  /  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadman_932 View Post
I dunno about a workshop. Drinks would be nice, though. Whatever it takes. There's no sense in losing a potential forum.

Here's an immediate task: gather together any good ideas that people remember from the past few weeks or months or whatever and start sticking them in the "Suppository Thread." That'll be a start.

We need all the good ideas or potentially good ideas that we can get. Workgroups (if that's what's meant by workshops) would be fine, but they should be open. Also can we clean up some of the less-immediately-useful threads ? This place is like a party-house the morning after
I'll buy you a beer, you just have to come to london on Feb 7th to get it.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:22 AM   #343105  /  #23
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How do I cast vote. See no poll, hear much evil.

Anyway, I think the "There will be no ..." series of statements amount to sweeping problems under the rug. No bans for three weeks? Are you really giving blank cheques out to trolls or what? Are you this much unsure of being right when identifying jerks?

Also, the list of don'ts is likely to go counterproductive. How many minutes before some poster claims that "you are a fucking retard" is not an insult, because their beloved trailer trash mom and dad always talked like that at home, and anyway you forgot to add it to the list of forbidden things to say?

You seem to be ashamed of your vision for this board (since it is probably more elitist than you are willing to admit or even freely discuss among yourselves), so you focus more and more on procedure instead, trying to reverse engineer the vision into a set of rules. That sounds like putting the cart before the (dead) horses anyway, and what's worse, the actual task is far too complex for XXI century science and technology. All this while the wish for a protected environment is repeatedly stigmatized through insults, which then naturally biases poster input in the favor of those posters who feel that without the ability of bullying others they are worth shit. Your rules will therefore suck. I vote NO.

ETA: great, a poll was affixed to the thread while I was writing the post ...
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Last edited by Barbarian; 01-13-2009 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Thread has grown a voting interface
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:22 AM   #343106  /  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Black View Post
I'll buy you a beer, you just have to come to london on Feb 7th to get it.
Gah, I'm tied up on projects for a couple of months, but I will be over there in the near future. Of course, I'll warn people since I wouldn't want an international incident. I carry a flask, too
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:25 AM   #343108  /  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarian View Post
How do I cast vote. See no poll, hear much evil.

Anyway, I think the "There will be no ..." series of statements amount to sweeping problems under the rug. No bans for three weeks? Are you really giving blank cheques out to trolls or what? Are you this much unsure of being right when identifying jerks?

Also, the list of don'ts is likely to go counterproductive. How many minutes before some poster claims that "you are a fucking retard" is not an insult, because their beloved trailer trash mom and dad always talked like that at home, and anyway you forgot to add it to the list of forbidden things to say?

You seem to be ashamed of your vision for this board (since it is probably more elitist than you are willing to admit or even freely discuss among yourselves), so you focus more and more on procedure instead, trying to reverse engineer the vision into a set of rules. That sounds like putting the cart before the (dead) horses anyway, and what's worse, the actual task is far too complex for XXI century science and technology. All this while the wish for a protected environment is repeatedly stigmatized through insults, which then naturally biases poster input in the favor of those posters who feel that without the ability of bullying others they are worth shit. Your rules will therefore suck. I vote NO.

ETA: great, a poll was affixed to the thread while I was writing the post ...
Two of the most "vicious" posters on TR have already agreed to the terms in the OP. I have no doubt others will follow suit. Chill out, and watch and learn something.
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