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Topic: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind (Read 23796 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2525
The belt top surface where it contacts the wheels is not in uniform linear motion and is never a stationary surface in any inertial reference frame. That shoots down your "theory".

It's not a theory, it's the result of a GT, and GTs are a symmetry of the real world. 

The elasticity of rubber (or whatever treadmill belts are made of) is irrelevant.  The claim that ddwfttw is possible never specified what the surface should be made of.  It doesn't even have to be solid or a road at all - one can consider ddwfttw for a boat, for instance.

That the surface deforms under the wheels is true to some extent for any surface, including roads made of asphalt, and also for running on sand or a dry lakebed like the one the blackbird set its record on.  At least past a certain point I would expect increasing the elasticity/deformability of the surface to slow the cart down (due to dissipative losses), not help it along.

  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2526
That's right.  Slipping doesn't help and excessive heat dissipation in deforming rubber tires doesn't either.  Angling off of DDW doesn't help either.

Question for Spork- did you guys intend for the variable pitch to be employed gradually depending on BB speed with respect to the wind?  The driver at El Mirage said that he would just move the pitch to full once the BB got partly up to windspeed and he could feel the effect.  I wondered if that was optimal.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2527
I obviously started with the prop at minimum pitch and increased it as my speed increased.  I was trying my best to find the pitch to optimize acceleration at all times, but I couldn't honestly tell you how effective that was.  I'm inclined to think this approach would beat the simpler approach pretty noticeably in a side-by-side race.

  • Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 10:29:38 PM by spork

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2528
Seems like what is needed is a balloon inflating and deploying,  chase camera drone. Maybe 2 drones, one in zero airspeed hover along the track, and the other on station above the BB.

Would the deniers ever accept that the drone sensors can detect zero airspeed?


Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2529
Would the deniers ever accept... 


Let me stop you right there.  NO - the deniers will not accept *anything* if it implies the vehicle went DDWFTTW - not even if they accepted it before.  Not even if they themselves used it to prove it can't go DDWFTTW.


Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2530
Would the deniers ever accept...


Let me stop you right there.  NO - the deniers will not accept *anything* if it implies the vehicle went DDWFTTW - not even if they accepted it before.  Not even if they themselves used it to prove it can't go DDWFTTW.

Definitely without a doubt true. Although I think we are down to a singular denier now.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2531
Would the deniers ever accept...
Let me stop you right there.  NO - the deniers will not accept *anything* if it implies the vehicle went DDWFTTW - not even if they accepted it before.  Not even if they themselves used it to prove it can't go DDWFTTW.
Definitely without a doubt true. Although I think we are down to a singular denier now.
Indeed. I was wondering why semper put that word in the plural form. Certainly it would be more interesting if there was a whole crowd of DDWFTTW deniers, but it seems that they are harder to come by than flat-earthers.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2532
Would the deniers ever accept...
Let me stop you right there.  NO - the deniers will not accept *anything* if it implies the vehicle went DDWFTTW - not even if they accepted it before.  Not even if they themselves used it to prove it can't go DDWFTTW.
Definitely without a doubt true. Although I think we are down to a singular denier now.
Indeed. I was wondering why semper put that word in the plural form. Certainly it would be more interesting if there was a whole crowd of DDWFTTW deniers, but it seems that they are harder to come by than flat-earthers.

Well if you throw in the "fencewalker" Arpie, perhaps you come up with 1.5 deniers. 

On the other hand, the old crew of deniers have lost interest and moved on since they never managed get any traction in their typical anti-DDWFTTW rants.  Then realistically, there is a group that just never understood how it could work.  I call them unscientific gawkers.  Some of them believed and some didn't depending on which side they chose as "authorities".

Nice to hear from you, Michael C.

Windgrins :grin:
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2533
Hard to say if we have multiple deniers.  Are harold, heinz, and humber more than a single troll?

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2534
Hard to say if we have multiple deniers.  Are harold, heinz, and humber more than a single troll?
Based on the reaction from one lone doubter on the SGU forums, I think some people just flat out don't believe it, and for some reason nothing can sway them.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2535
Hard to say if we have multiple deniers.  Are harold, heinz, and humber more than a single troll?

Two I think.  Humber and Sybil (AKA Harold, Heinz, Profpangloss and some others if I remember correctly.)

Windgrins :grin:
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2536
We haven't seen humber in a while.  You suppose he finally died of stupidity?

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2537
Or shame
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2538
We haven't seen humber in a while.  You suppose he finally died of stupidity?


He probably just sat down and quietly figured out that it actually works and couldn't bear to return.

Once Heinz figures out that he has been a total idiot all this time, who knows what will happen to him?

Windgrins :grin:
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

  • MikeB
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2539
I don't understand how anyone who is aware of the NALSA certification can state that "it doesn't work".  We all KNOW it works with the diligence of NALSA and the almost 3x windspeed record.

Now, if the stated certification was that the BB achieved 1.1x windspeed, some doubts about gusts, lulls, measurement accuracy etc. may be credible.  At 2.8x windspeed, any skepticism is just for trolling purposes.

I personally witnessed the BB rolling along at roughly 1.5x - 2x windspeed in a gentle wind that seemed to average around 10 mph.

  • Brother Daniel
  • Global Moderator
  • predisposed to antagonism
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2540
But but but there's a big conspiracy, involving you, spork, and everyone in NALSA, to commit a big fraud, even though there's no personal gain in it. [/HH]

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2541
I don't understand how anyone who is aware of the NALSA certification can state that "it doesn't work".  We all KNOW it works with the diligence of NALSA and the almost 3x windspeed record.

Now, if the stated certification was that the BB achieved 1.1x windspeed, some doubts about gusts, lulls, measurement accuracy etc. may be credible.  At 2.8x windspeed, any skepticism is just for trolling purposes.

I personally witnessed the BB rolling along at roughly 1.5x - 2x windspeed in a gentle wind that seemed to average around 10 mph.

I don't know how long you have been laughing at our Hyevpropangloss but one of the more hilarious things about him was how much reverence he initially had for NALSA. He was completely certain that they would shoot down the whole DDWFTTW concept as soon as they had a close look at it. We all know what has has happened since. Poor Haryevpan. I almost feel sorry for the nitwit.


Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2542
Quote
I don't know how long you have been laughing at our Hyevpropangloss but one of the more hilarious things about him was how much reverence he initially had for NALSA.

He was showing some reverence for MikeB too when he thought he was going to get a test that proved DDWFTTW is impossible, and quickly returned to childish and unfounded insults.

The fact that he was so excited to see the balloon test, and was treating MikeB with respect in anticipation of that test, suggests to me that he's actually that stupid rather than simply trolling.


Quote
Poor Haryevpan. I almost feel sorry for the nitwit.

If he was just a nitwit I might also, but he's also a gaping asshole - so not so much.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2543
Quote
I don't know how long you have been laughing at our Hyevpropangloss but one of the more hilarious things about him was how much reverence he initially had for NALSA.

He was showing some reverence for MikeB too when he thought he was going to get a test that proved DDWFTTW is impossible, and quickly returned to childish and unfounded insults.

The fact that he was so excited to see the balloon test, and was treating MikeB with respect in anticipation of that test, suggests to me that he's actually that stupid rather than simply trolling.


Quote
Poor Haryevpan. I almost feel sorry for the nitwit.

If he was just a nitwit I might also, but he's also a gaping asshole - so not so much.


And don't forget that he bought Dr. Donald Simanek to the table as the physics champion who was going to shoot down DDWFTTW once and for all.  Once it was explained to him by Spork and others, Dr. Simanek wrote up an article about how it actually worked.  So Sybil had to disavow and try to discredit him also.

Link to Dr. Simanek's explanation

He and Humber attempted to be nice for a short time to me when I agreed to do their "definitive" experiments as agreed.  But when they all came out 100% in opposition to their predictions (which anyone can repeat with simple equipment to validate), he went on the warpath again calling me a moron! ;)

If Harold had been just confused and didn't understand it, one might have some sympathy.  But at every opportunity he became a flaming asshole with insults all around, refused to correct arithmetic, physics, and math errors,  accused everyone involved were lying and faking results and experiments (even though everyone was shown how to do them and invited to replicate them) and at every minor defeat, changed personas to attempt to show more people didn't believe when it was just Sybil, in another personality.  So it's hard to have much sympathy.

Windgrins :grin:

  • Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 07:02:17 AM by windgrins
Lunatic Fringe, I know you're out there.  You've got to blame someone for your own confusion.

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2544
What we have here:



listening to these fucktards, you might think the balloon test was a great success when in fact it was an abject failure.

Just fucking amazing!
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (Jonathan Swift)

  • Brother Daniel
  • Global Moderator
  • predisposed to antagonism
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2545
listening to these fucktards, you might think the balloon test was a great success when in fact it was an abject failure.
Nobody said or even hinted that it was a "great success".  You seem to have a difficult time making a response without lying.

  • F X
  • The one and only
Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2546
If Harold had been just confused and didn't understand it, one might have some sympathy.  But at every opportunity he became a flaming asshole with insults all around,
Nothing says "I are smarter than you" than constant insults.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2547
If Harold had been just confused and didn't understand it, one might have some sympathy.  But at every opportunity he became a flaming asshole with insults all around,
Nothing says "I are smarter than you" than constant insults.


So I noticed.
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (Jonathan Swift)

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2548
listening to these fucktards, you might think the balloon test was a great success when in fact it was an abject failure.
Nobody said or even hinted that it was a "great success".  You seem to have a difficult time making a response without lying.

Learn how to read.
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (Jonathan Swift)

Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Reply #2549
I don't understand how anyone who is aware of the NALSA certification can state that "it doesn't work".  We all KNOW it works with the diligence of NALSA and the almost 3x windspeed record.

You throw that acronym around as if it means something. Little nalsa is a sailing club not qualified to run a physics experiment.

Now, if the stated certification was that the BB achieved 1.1x windspeed, some doubts about gusts, lulls, measurement accuracy etc. may be credible.  At 2.8x windspeed, any skepticism is just for trolling purposes.

It was a 10 mph wind again wasn't it? Bull fucking shit! The wind was well over 25 mph and the cart barely cracked wind speed going at an angle to the wind.

I personally witnessed the BB rolling along at roughly 1.5x - 2x windspeed in a gentle wind that seemed to average around 10 mph.

You personally witnessed fuck all. Without the balloons, which you botched, you have no idea about the wind direction and velocity, especially at propeller hub height. It is only wishful "thinking" and confirmation bias that leads you to say that it was a "gentle breeze of 10 mph"

This is why you are a crackpot and not a scientist of any stripe.

In fact, none of you are scientists and this claim has zero scientific support as it has never been accepted for peer review by any respected scientific journal and never will be.

The only reason I post about it is to keep any readers aware that this is a farce and a scam, so no more people get taken in by it. I sure as hell have no hope of deprogramming you crackpots.

"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (Jonathan Swift)