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Messages - Damitall

Franoogling is an established term to describe Hawkins behaviour, after all.

I think I may have coined that term, back in the days when I was interested in what Dave thought about anything.

You are trying to discuss genetic diversity with an ignoramus who doesn't even know what the word means in common English.

To say, as he does, that a single genome has diversity, is no less than STUPID

Yes, we think that he might mean that a bacterial genome of several million base pairs has the POTENTIAL TO BE THE SOURCE OF DIVERSE (DIFFERENT) GENOMES WHEN ACTED UPON BY AGENTS OF CHANGE, but that is trivially true, and non-controversial.

But since he construes "diversity" in a way that means the individual known as Ignoramus Hawkins is, of itself, "diverse", you may as well go and do something useful.
Everybody - especially Dave - should read this

For balance, of course.

And lulz
New Mueller bombshell hints that Rick Gates may have delivered the goods in Trump-Russia probe

The office of special counsel Robert Mueller has now proposed dropping charges against former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates, in what might be the strongest sign yet that Gates has given the investigation significant information related to its probe of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

As reported by Politico's Kyle Cheney, the special counsel's office has officially proposed dropping 17 separate charges against Gates from a superseding indictment that it issued last week. In his filing to dismiss the charges, Mueller writes "the government is moving to dismiss pursuant to a plea agreement," although he doesn't spell out any details of what his office is getting in exchange from Gates.

Gotta be juicy.  Gates was over a barrel and looking at serious jail time
No it's not. Do you realize that the parts of your quotes that you're not putting in bold (and even parts of what you are putting in bold) directly contradict what you're saying?
Document what you think are the contradictions please. Keep in mind that these passages are from people who still believe in the Out of Africa theory. That is why I focus on the evidence and not on their Out of Africa assumptions.
What would be the point of documenting the contradictions when you've just explicitly stated that you're ignoring them? They are in your own quotes. They are not difficult to spot. If you consider anything you think doesn't fit your beliefs "assumptions" and anything you think does "evidence," there's no point in discussing anything.
Anyone else?
I researched this subject a few years ago. Since then there have been studies/articles supporting aspects of the idea. I have posted from those studies/articles. If anyone wants to object then you will have to do the hard work of researching those references and showing how they are wrong. Just making assertions is not good enough. I have supported what I am saying by references and copy and paste. You will have to do the same.

Well, no

Long-term observation of  the poster here using the ID "socrates1" leads to the inescapable conclusion that he  is a) an obsessive; b) generally wrong, c) occasionally malicious, d) irrelevant to science in particular and life in general, and e) extraordinarily boring
I for one feel life to be enhanced by ignoring him, as I have for a good while now, and will for some large proportion of the rest of my life.
A statement like "this mutation is beneficial" is subjective and it's subject to all kinds of assumptions.

No, it is not subjective.  And the only assumption it is subject to is the assumption of measurement accuracy, and that can be quantified.
Nope.  You're wrong. 

Those mutations may or may not be beneficial depending on how "beneficial" is defined ... AND ... as you have often pointed out ... on the environment.  Lenski defined "beneficial" as "more fit" which he seems to think means "reproduces more frequently under my laboratory conditions."  But as he himself admits, these mutations may not be "beneficial" in the wild. 

In the journal Nature, Cooper and Lenski acknowledge this [1], writing;
"Note that adaptation to glucose may result from mutations that either improve
some aspect of glucose catabolism or eliminate unnecessary functions that are costly
to fitness in glucose. In either case, the mutations improve fitness on glucose while
adversely affecting performance on other substrates [emphasis ours]."10

Also, as others have pointed out, "more fit" has a far greater criteria in real life (the wild) than "reproduces more frequently."

Fitness is a multidimensional trait that encompasses total biological functionality - all traits,
all genes, and all catabolic pathways - not just proficiency in glucose consumption. Biologists
understand this. In the journal of Genetics, Pelosi and colleagues write, " is a
complex phenotypic trait that emerges from all the interactions among the molecular
components of an entire organism."25

WTF does "a far greater criteria"  mean? Anyone?
"this" being ... As the E. coli bacteria became more specialized on a glucose diet, they simultaneously suffered functional decay, becoming far less fit in virtually every other dimension.
How does someone unironically give a thread this title?

Have you not yet realised?  Dave is doing 8-D irony. He is so incredibly ironic that no-one can see it.

The left-wing conspiracy theory that the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russian officials ahead of the 2016 presidential campaign continued to crash and burn Friday, with Robert Mueller's indictment showing the foreign nationals began meddling in US politics one year before Donald Trump announced his run for office.

Almost exactly a year after the above tweet: "Woman Who Helped Organize Miss Universe in 2013 Announced Trump's Presidential Run in January, 2015"

Go ahead and put your high-speed mind to work on the possible implications.
On a side note: I talk with many people from Russia and other former USSR countries at work. They often can't speak Greek and I don't speak Russian, so we discuss in English.

I've NEVER heard anyone do the pseudo-stereotypical "no articles" accent. It just doesn't occur.

Why the hell is that woman tweeting that way?

My Russian friends are fluent in English, but frequently leave out their definite articles. When they get excited, which is often, it's almost as if they're parodying themselves
Just LOVIN' Sean Hannity's latest batshittery (the secret sperm on Obama's portrait)

People take this guy seriously - this is what America has come to

Pingu has predicted that Donald Trump will not be in office by January of 2019. I believe that she believes this primarily because she reads fake news. ( understandable because she is a fake scientist )

One of the most non fake news sources I have read in the past couple years is Julian Assange of WikiLeaks. Here's what he had to say this morning...

"Republicans have circled the wagons around Trump in the lead up to the November mid term Congressional elections. He is now safe from impeachment until at least 2019 since 2/3rds of the Senate is needed. The Democrats have squandered everything on neo-cons and neo-McCarthyism."

Safe until 2019?

Maybe. But 2019 is not far off, and anyway meticulous investigations of money-laundering and obstruction of justice may well use up that time.
Truth Matters, eh, Dave?. May as well get at all of it, wherever it leads.
That's fine.  Keep thinking that if you please.  It won't change what I do every day - working toward "Local Community Sufficiency" based on a Restorative Agriculture Model - which in turn, if adopted far and wide, could help us trim down our federal and state bureaucracies and help us depend less on multinational corporations all of whom tend toward the types of corruption that we see being investigated by congress right now.

So you've been "working towards local community sufficiency" for some years now.
You've achieved a poor-quality straw hovel and a couple of tipi-style tents
You've killed a few animals, but managed to keep a couple of goats, and had some kids from them
You've devised a Rube Goldberg moving goat pen
You've drunk a lot of goat milk

This far, you're not even SELF-sufficient; and nothing you have done adds to the concept of sustainability - or even of "community"
"Working" towards?  Only by a very generous definition of the word.

And in the meantime, you seem very happy that the Thing in the White House, and its incompetent and ignorant Administration, is busy gutting every agency whose remit it was to keep your food and water clean and safe; to preserve at least some of your country's astounding natural landscapes and ecosystems; to keep the very air you breathe safe; and to try and keep a lid on malpractice and corruption.

Deluded much? Why yes, I think you are. Bigly.
This is pointless. Dave is one of the vast number of Frightened Fundagelicals who dare not change a belief once settled on.To consider doing so is tantamount to denying his own personhood, and may result in debasing the whole of his upbringing.

It goes along with fear of strong, independent women; and the fear that someone may have something he doesn't have

Whatever happens with Ol'Baldy, Hairless Fuhrer, Dave will never believe anything he doesn't believe now.
Jeez, I hope this is true...

... if only because it would be really embarrassing for the Roosians
But wait a minute... I thought there was no such thing as a correct configuration for a gene in Bizarro Darwin world.

After all, random mutation is the engine of all biological diversity... So we are told.

Quite right.  But there are genes that work and there are broken genes. Even working genes may have several different versions, but still work. You won't hear scientists referring to "correct" genes, just functional genes.

But to the larger point - you say we must "work with nature"  but are quite happy with the distinctly unnatural process of inserting a functional gene into an organism to compensate for a non-functional gene?

Whose world is Bizarro World again?
With this in mind, I'm pretty sure no one would be so foolish as to try to make Microsoft Excel a better software program by manipulating the machine code for the software.

I believe it would likewise be foolish to try to manipulate individual amino acids on the DNA double helix in order to try to make a living organism better.

If you think that DNA is composed of amino acids your ignorance is even worse than I thought, Mr Better-Scientist-Than-Everyone-Else, and you have some reading to do.
Aside from that WHY is foolish to manipulate DNA in the pursuit of optimisation?
Is it equally foolish to research methods of replacing defective genes, when those defects are causing disease?
That "machine code" thing is really one of Dave's worst analogies, and that's saying something. I can't think of anything in most science it remotely fits except for some biotech stuff and maybe some particle physics.

ETA: And of course there's nothing inherently wrong with working with machine code if you know what you're doing.

Yes. And it doesn't alter my point.
It's quite possible that some clever-clogs COULD amend the Excel source code to improve it. Would Dave then refuse to use the improved version?

If not, what's his beef against improving the genome of a living organism? What's wrong with a higher-yielding crop plant? Or a disease-resistant animal?
rural oregon is a very strange place.

Those of my friends who have been to different parts of rural America report that some places are not just weird, but downright threatening to strangers.  "nice to have you visit, but it'd be healthier for you to move on right soon" sort of thing
Damitall that is great that you have had success in business. What's weird is that you think your business experience somehow qualifies you to say that Donald Trump is making mistakes with international trade. I suspect that you just don't like the guy and you are shooting your mouth off. But feel free to prove me wrong and explain to me how you are qualified to judge him.

Oh, for crying out loud!
I judge him, as anyone with his claims should WANT to be judged - by the results he got. Listed further up - multiple bankruptcies, multiple business failures, swindles, stiffings of suppliers and workers...all proven matters of legal record, you twat, not the made-up-from-whole-cloth bullshit fabric of lies that you support and spread every day of your miserable, wasted, braggart's life
Look, if you want to support a man with such a record, with the moral fibre of Jello, who lies like a rug every time he opens his trap, and who couldn't lead a conga line, let alone a country, go right ahead.

But you will be part of a diminishing section of the fearful bigoted Merkins dying out because they consistently vote against their own interests, and die of opioid abuse and other eminently treatable conditions for lack of state-supported healthcare. Or who are injured by crappy infrastructure falling apart under them for lack of tax money to repair roads and bridges. Or who suffer because the government agencies whose job it is to protect them from Big Ag filling the environment with ecology-destroying pesticides have been gutted on the orders of Big Ag

I'm much heartened on behalf of all good Merkins to earn that Oregon has just voted YES to a measure increasing taxes to pay for healthcare. It attracts matching federal money and has the whole-hearted support of the insurers and healthcare providers (and even of some Rethuglicans) - and it passes with a vote of over 60%.
It seems that rural counties - just where a higher proportion of folk are poor and find it difficult to buy healthcare - were the ones to vote against. Go figure. Do rural fearful bigoted Merkins not understand the principle of insurance? Do they not understand that a little extra tax paid by everybody buys a shit-ton of healthcare for those in need? Which might be them next year, the year after...?
And to cap it all, the Orange Shartcannon has started a trade war with China and South Korea. No more affordable washing machines or solar energy for you 'Merkins!

The dollar is taking a battering today. Hair Furore will own up to that - I don't think.

It will cost him  a whole lot more dollars to repay his Russian debt now. Mind you, he has a piss-poor track record in repaying debt anyway.

And of course anybody repaying foreign currency loans will have to find extra dollars. I wonder who those debtors will blame?
Didn't you claim to be a businessman?  How is it then that you cannot recognize good business skills in someone else? ... talking about DT here.  I suspect he is a far more successful businessman than you in terms of sheer size of his business.  Why do you not recognize that and at least give him some credit for being shrewd?

Given what he started with he should have done much, much better than he has.

I've run businesses, home and export.  All were and are still successful. In 30+ years, I've never gone bankrupt. Never stiffed a supplier, never cheated a customer and always paid my employees well. Because of the regulatory environments into which we sold, the products were always best quality, too. Never borrowed money I couldn't pay back.
I'd rather take that record to the pearly gates than Trump's record of not paying, of serial bankruptcy to escape liability, of crappy product, of swindling customers, of over-indebtedness....
And to cap it all, the Orange Shartcannon has started a trade war with China and South Korea. No more affordable washing machines or solar energy for you 'Merkins!

The dollar is taking a battering today. Hair Furore will own up to that - I don't think.

It will cost him  a whole lot more dollars to repay his Russian debt now. Mind you, he has a piss-poor track record in repaying debt anyway.

And of course anybody repaying foreign currency loans will have to find extra dollars. I wonder who those debtors will blame?
Hey, you Americans!

What's it like living in a banana republic vassal state of Russia?

The conclusion I draw is that Dave feels enabled/validated by people calling him out - probably because no-one else with a brain takes  a blind bit of notice of anything he says.
That's why he's here. Goats and rubes are not great conversationalists, and just agreeing with the local fascists is not very rewarding.
Don't know. Don't care.

But only because you don't like the answer. You really are a dishonest little shit, aren't you.
Well, Dave is no longer an investor - but I wonder what he'll be saying when the stock market bubble bursts?

Which it will, the only question is when. Just look at the 10-year Nasdaq and Dow charts

Then compare with the 10-year FTSE charts.

If all slopes return to trend - and they will -, who is going to suffer most, the US investor or the UK investor?

I'm divesting US stocks and increasing proportion in cash