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Messages - spork

There is no excuse, I admitted that I did not plan and execute well.

There is actually a very good excuse.  Planning and executing tests in the real world is typically MUCH harder than most people expect.  Even when you do one you feel good about people will often trash it by bringing up all sorts of irrelevant details they wish you'd done differently.  I would not expect a balloon test like this to go smoothly the first time out.  After attempting it once and learning some or most of the real world difficulties, you have a much better chance of getting a good test the next time.  But one thing we've learned over the years is that it's WAY easier to bitch about a test than it is to do one that pleases most people.

One thing is certain.  Your balloon test was infinitely more successful than any of Heinz' tests.

I will do it again if there is another opportunity but have to wonder if Neil will take the BB out again anytime soon.

It sounded like he thought that might be its last run.  I think he's worried that it may not hold up well enough to be safe.
It is then a simple matter to realize that a singular vehicle with appropriately arranged sail mechanism can easily exceed windspeed ddw.

A simple matter for Heinz!?   :happyno:
We had been asking the BB driver, Steve, what the controls were like and if the variable pitch control had much force feedback.  He replied that it was surprisingly little. 
There's not much force feedback in the lever that controls the pitch, but the impact on the vehicle's acceleration is quite noticeable.  

Then he also noted that it seemed pretty easy to sense when he was angling off the wind direction, as that would have a noticeable effect in slowing the BB when he got more than some amount off.  He said that turning near a right angle with the wind would quickly bring the BB to a stop.

Yup.  We had a streamer on the nose of the vehicle and I would simply steer toward the tail of that streamer to keep my bearing as close as possible to dead downwind. 

Angling off wind direction only hurts the BB performance.

Sure - that's just what they WANT you to think!  It's all a conspiracy.  If it were real you would have done the balloon test, but you scuttled it because Spork must have paid you off!

If the BB ever get out to El Mirage again, I'll try to manage the balloon demo better...

The funny thing is this... I'd like to see the balloon demo, but only for the entertainment value of watching Heinz deny it.  It's perfectly obvious to the rest of us how the demo will come out of course.
This is how we ended up with Trump :(
Awesome.  I wonder how I would pass a 100MB file to you, other than put it on a CD or USB stick and mail it.  Maybe we will have multiple files that could be edited and joined.  I really should learn how to do it.
You could use DropBox or Hightail
I see they record in a .mov file format and assuming we are able to record steadily enough to clearly show what happens, next will be learning how to post to YouTube.  I don't have an account yet but my son does and maybe he will host for me.

Good luck today.  I really hope you get good conditions and some good video.  I'd be happy to convert the video format, edit it, and post it if that helps.

I predict that no matter what happens with ANY experiment, analysis, or explanation, Heinz will continue to be astonishingly stupid and deny what's right there for everyone to see.

I hope they do a balloon test.  I've done what I can to help facilitate it.  But I give you my absolute 100% guarantee that Heinz will have some bullshit argument to explain how it doesn't count.  

In related news... fuck that piece of shit!

In the case of the belt going around rollers it turns out that every part of the belt is critical to what the cart does.  But in the case of the deformation of wheels and/or belt at the contact point, only that portion of the belt matters.  I don't know how this can be so, but Heinz claims this is the case, so it must be.
>>  The only part of the belt that matters to the cart is the small arcs at the bottom of the wheels, nothing else. 

This is my favorite quote in a long time!  After years of stupidity about how the belt didn't count since it is rotating about rollers in front of and behind the cart, now we learn that only the belt in contact with the car matters!

  With that said, sure, it would be fun to see it chase down some balloons.
I expect the balloon test will be done.  But I can give you a 100% guarantee that it won't satisfy the idiot.  

The balloons will either be heavier than air and will therefore hit the ground at least occasionally, or they'll be lighter than air and they'll simply fly away.  On top of that, wind isn't perfectly 100% laminar with constant speed and direction.  And then you have the filming.  Even if all of the above were 100% perfect, we'd hear about how the angles were all wrong for the video.  I'm sure there are 100 more excuses I won't bother to try and think of, but surely no one here thinks a balloon test (or any other test) would ever change the idiot's mind.

This whole business about deformation at the contact point is of course pure bullshit.  Of course it's true that a point contact of any real-world material cannot carry any force, either normal or tangential, since it would imply infinite stress or pressure at that point.  But this is just the classic bullshit lie/misdirection.  It doesn't matter whether the wheel, the surface, or both deform.  And if you really care which it is, just make the road out of the same material as the treadmill belt.

For those in the audience who definitely know a lot less about physics than Heinz...
Good luck finding such a person.  I've certainly never met one.
it's a flywheel man!
Yup, it's a flywheel... with a ratchet so that it cannot put energy into the vehicle.
I don't do Facebook so it would be great if you can get a few details of his plans.  I'd love to release some balloons downwind of the BB and video the BB running them down.
This is what he told another friend...

"The target day is Saturday May 19. Friday is an option, if we arrive Thursday or early enough on Friday to get set up. Of course it always depends on the weather too."

I know he's planning to do the runs at El Mirage.  I just now asked if I can pass his contact info along to you.  I'm sure he'll say yes.


If you come to the area that day, I will meet you, try to negotiate with the owner to drive ahead and release some items.
You provide the items.
I'm pretty sure the owner would be happy to let you do any non-destructive tests you like.  But I'm sure you know there is no test that will satisfy the few remaining idiots.
Spork, you don't note a likely time of day to observe.  Is there a typical best window for steady winds?  Has Neil said anything about his plans?
Sorry, I don't know his plans.  I can ask if you like.  If you're on facebook I can also introduce you there.
I haven't had time to read the thread but do these carts really work?
So we have two world records through both Guinness and NALSA (the North American Land Sailing Association), loads of data and videos, and have posted detailed videos on how you can build and demonstrate your own model in your own house, and several people have done exactly that, a couple even won their science fair by doing so, but what's his name is probably right... it's all a scam.

Oh yeah, we've also written detailed explanations (both mathematical and through various analogies) that detail exactly how it works. 


Will it be sailing downwind or upwind?
Downwind.  He only has the downwind blade set.
The Blackbird is scheduled to ride again. Neil Cutcliffe, the new owner, will be operating it at El Mirage in southern CA on May 18. If you ever wanted to see it run, this is your chance.
Science / Re: Tesla's heat engine (split from DDWFTTW)
We need an update on your heat engine.
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
@Spork; Do you recall the name of the guy from Christchurch NZ you sparred with back in '09 at JREF?
I remember the guy, and the experiment, but not the name.
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
OK, Heinz has just corrected me on something...
HOLY CHRIST - you're kidding me!?
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind

Sorry, I'm probably confusing things unnecessarily. I thought I remembered those gears as being 1:1, but I'm sure whatever I said in the video is right.  I do still have the cart, but it's 3000 miles away at the moment (I'm back east for the holidays).

Helicopter World and Century Heli is the same place.  I think Century Heli became the brand and Helicopter World is the shop.  But it's the same building.  Also, if I said 3" wheels in the video that will be right.

Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
Hmmm... it looks like your gear-set is not 1:1.  That will have an impact on the prop-pitch and/or wheel size you want.  Let us know what the ratio is between the two gears, and which one is on the axle vs which is on the prop-shaft.

I'm surprised you're having to order anything overseas.  I'm pretty sure I could walk into Aeromicro and get all the parts needed.
Science / Re: Tesla's heat engine (split from DDWFTTW)

On this diagram where does the heat go in?

Also, it's not clear to me whether the ice-water is cooling the pipe or vice versa.