SAN FRANCISCO -- At Rainbow Grocery, a cooperative in this city's Mission District, one brand of water is so popular that it's often out of stock. But one recent evening, there was a glittering rack of it: glass orbs containing 2.5 gallons of what is billed as "raw water" -- unfiltered, untreated, unsterilized spring water, $36.99 each and $14.99 per refill, bottled and marketed by a small company called Live Water."It has a vaguely mild sweetness, a nice smooth mouth feel, nothing that overwhelms the flavor profile," said Kevin Freeman, a shift manager at the store. "Bottled water's controversial. We've curtailed our water selection. But this is totally outside that whole realm."
And Liquid Eden, a water store that opened in San Diego three years ago, offers a variety of options, including fluoride-free, chlorine-free and a "mineral electrolyte alkaline" drinking water that goes for $2.50 a gallon.Trisha Kuhlmey, the owner, said the shop sells about 900 gallons of water a day, and sales have doubled every year as the "water consciousness movement" grows.What adherents share is a wariness of tap water, particularly the fluoride added to it and the lead pipes that some of it passes through. They contend that the wrong kind of filtration removes beneficial minerals. Even traditional bottled spring water is treated with ultraviolet light or ozone gas and passed through filters to remove algae. That, they say, kills healthful bacteria -- "probiotics" in raw-water parlance.
The most prominent proponent of raw water is Doug Evans, a Silicon Valley entrepreneur. After his juicing company, Juicero, collapsed in September, he went on a 10-day cleanse, drinking nothing but Live Water. "I haven't tasted tap water in a long time," he said.Before he could order raw water on demand, Mr. Evans went "spring hunting" with friends. This has become more challenging lately: The closest spring around San Francisco has recently been cut off by landslides, so reaching it means crossing private property, which he does under cover of night."You have to be agile and tactile, and be available to experiment," he said. "Literally, you have to carry bottles of water through the dark."At Burning Man, the summer festival in the Nevada desert that attracts the digerati and others, Mr. Evans and his R.V. mate brought 50 gallons of spring water they had collected. "I'm extreme about health, I know, but I'm not alone with this," Mr. Evans said. "There are a lot of people doing this with me. You never know who you'll run into at the spring."
The founder of Live Water, Mukhande Singh, started selling spring water from Opal Springs in Culver, Ore., three years ago, but it was a small local operation until this year. Marketing materials show Mr. Singh (né Christopher Sanborn) sitting naked and cross-legged on a hot spring, his long brown hair flowing over his chest.
Pure water can be obtained by using a reverse osmosis filter, the gold standard of home water treatment, but for Mr. Singh, the goal is not pristine water, per se. "You're going to get 99 percent of the bad stuff out," he said. "But now you have dead water."He said "real water" should expire after a few months. His does. "It stays most fresh within one lunar cycle of delivery," he said. "If it sits around too long, it'll turn green. People don't even realize that because all their water's dead, so they never see it turn green."Mr. Singh believes that public water has been poisoned. "Tap water? You're drinking toilet water with birth control drugs in them," he said. "Chloramine, and on top of that they're putting in fluoride. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it's a mind-control drug that has no benefit to our dental health." (There is no scientific evidence that fluoride is a mind-control drug, but plenty to show that it aids dental health.)
"Fluoride? It's a deathly toxic chemical," said Vanessa Kuemmerle of Emeryville, Calif., who does landscape design for large tech companies. She said she was an early adopter of raw water, and has noticed many of her clients following suit."They're health-conscious people that understand the bigger picture of what's going on," she said. "Everyone's looking for an edge: nootropics, Bulletproof coffee, better water."The health benefits she reported include better skin and the need to drink less water. "My skin's plumper," she said. "And I feel like I'm getting better nutrition from the food I eat."
"I don't like 'raw water' because it sort of makes people think of raw sewage," Mr. Vitalis said. "When you say 'live water,' that's going to trigger a lot of people who are into physics and biology. Is it alive?"
Lol. So Water from a spring fresh enough to drink? Basically that"s likely to be recent rainfall with crap in it.
I want to smack people very hard when they confuse Fluorine and fluoride. Because of course they never make the same mistake about Chlorine and (sodium) chloride.
Quote from: Martin.au on December 30, 2017, 02:54:42 PMLol. So Water from a spring fresh enough to drink? Basically that"s likely to be recent rainfall with crap in it. There are springs safe enough to drink from, at least in this province, but I'd want the water tested regularly.
Quote from: borealis on December 30, 2017, 03:36:56 PMQuote from: Martin.au on December 30, 2017, 02:54:42 PMLol. So Water from a spring fresh enough to drink? Basically that"s likely to be recent rainfall with crap in it. There are springs safe enough to drink from, at least in this province, but I'd want the water tested regularly.Yeah, but you're on a shield, iirc. Around San Fran it's all neotectonics and converging margins. In those areas I'd expect groundwater salinity to link to distance travelled and age, as it pulls ions out of young, unweathered rocks. I could be wrong. This is very broad brush opinion.
"Chloramine, and on top of that they're putting in fluoride. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it's a mind-control drug that has no benefit to our dental health." (There is no scientific evidence that fluoride is a mind-control drug, but plenty to show that it aids dental health.)
Quote"Chloramine, and on top of that they're putting in fluoride. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it's a mind-control drug that has no benefit to our dental health." (There is no scientific evidence that fluoride is a mind-control drug, but plenty to show that it aids dental health.)Someone recommended a local dentist to me. Said they were really good. Seemed competent enough, but one day she started going on about fluoride being a mind control drug. I now have another dentist, who seems to be even more competent without being bonkers.I do live in an area where we rely on filtered rainwater from a tank for drinking, so there is no fluoride in my water supply. Definitely use fluoride toothpaste though, ever since I found out about its benefits. Nor have I noticed any mind control properties since I started using it. Politicians seem just as full of shit as they were before I started using it. If fluoride is intended to make the sheeple more compliant, it doesn't seem to be very effective.
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/dining/raw-water-unfiltered.html
Quote from: meepmeep on December 30, 2017, 12:31:12 PMThis is the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/dining/raw-water-unfiltered.htmlTry some Dave threads.
Fluoride is really good to brush your teeth with. It's really bad to get to much of it in your water.
As it turns out, the "Fountain of Truth" is perfectly safe to drink. That's because it's the exact same water that flows out of the taps in Oregon. At $64 for a minimum of four jugs, that's an awful lot of money to pay for essentially the same water you can get out of your bathroom sink.Live Water makes it look like its product has been skimmed off the surface of a magical mountain spring. Founder Mukhande Singh lives in Hawaii, and you can find him on Instagram filling glass orbs from natural water sources trickling down over jungle vegetation, or from PVC pipes protruding from springs just below the ground. Singh--whose birth name is Christopher Sanborn--says he's personally drunk from "hundreds" of natural springs and has never gotten sick. His company's site even includes a link to findaspring.com, a website for water gatherers to find naturally occurring water sources.When raw water first started going viral, a number of other outlets reported on the dangers of collecting your drinking water directly from a spring. Given the potential health risks, we wanted to find out exactly where "Fountain of Truth" comes from.On its website, Live Water says it's sourced from Opal Springs, Oregon, a natural spring at the bottom of a canyon near the small city of Madras. So we called Jonathan Modie, a spokesperson for the Oregon Department of Public Health, to ask what kind of water "collecting" goes on at Opal Springs.Modie said that Opal Springs was fed by an aquifer that was able to meet all the standards for public consumption without treatment, and that the water was distributed by the Deschutes Valley Water District, a nonprofit utility company that's been in business since 1919. When we called the Deschutes Valley Water District to ask how bottling companies like Live Water get water from the spring. They made it clear that no, Singh isn't down at the bottom of the Opal Springs Canyon dunking his $33 1 gallon globes in by hand like he does on his Instagram."They all like to sorta imply that they're filling bottles right outta Opal Springs," Edson Pugh, the general manager, told me. "They are not down at our spring bottling directly from the source. It's the same water that we're serving our customers."In other words, Live Water's pricey "Fountain of Truth" is just the tap water from Jefferson County, which residents get piped into their homes for about one-third of a cent per gallon.When we asked Live Water to confirm this, Singh was open about it."The town of Madras, Oregon, has been drinking raw unsterilized Opal Springs water from their taps for over half a century and no one has ever gotten sick," Singh said in an email. "Our water is indeed the same water that comes out of their taps." Shortly before publication, Live Water updated its site to acknowledge this fact.When asked why a minimum Live Water delivery costs $64, Singh replied: "Our water delivery service is so expensive as a result of our refrigerated trucks, refrigerated storage, and the cost for custom made glass jugs. We are acquiring some outside investment soon, and will be building up our infrastructure. We hope to make prices more affordable at that time."
Well that's nowhere near san Fransisco.