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  • As unofficial Charter editor I am going to reduce that to "Talk shitloads."

Topic: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War? (Read 6857 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • RickB
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1250
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.  Multiple accounts by actual child brides refute this impression.  Dave sides with the South African, draw your own conclusion.

Dave on the treatment of Southern Slaves:
A single reporter states that Calhoun's slaves live in a veritable utopia, where they are able to grow some food on their masters land and derive some income from that labor.  Dave equates chattel slavery (human ownership) with having a job (any and all jobs).  Dave states that because Calhoun does not rail against the mistreatment of slaves this means that slaves are not mistreated anywhere in the south.  Dave ascribes to Calhoun some sort of perfect knowledge and perfect judgement, in that if slaves were mistreated anywhere in the south that Calhoun would be aware of it and if it existed would rail against it.  That Calhoun did not rail against it means that mistreatment of slaves did not exist in that south.  Therefore slaves were not mistreated anywhere in the south.

Dave on neo-Nazis:
When neo-Nazis protest armed with M-16's and AK-47's this does not mean that they are violent or threatening counter-protesters.  No, no, they are merely asserting a right to self defense against counter-protesters not so armed.  As if someone without a firearm is somehow a lethal threat to someone with a firearm.  And that when the side with firearms uses a car to murder someone, their excuse is that the other side was treating while not having firearms.

It seems Dave that there is a trend with these positions (and this is not even a complete list).  That being that by ignoring counter evidence, you support having sex with children, you support slavery and that you support neo-Nazis.

To counter this impression, Dave, you need to address, with evidence not simply banal assertions, each of these points.

  • Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 05:34:02 PM by RickB

  • Fenrir
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1251
Borealis does seem biased to me but it's pretty hard for people to completely overcome all their biases. We all have them and they will inevitably show up.



Of course Borealis is biased. She is a ordinary human being and you are a wilfully ignorant and cowardly despicable liar. Would be hard not to be.

The remarkable bit is the lengths Borealis (and the rest of the staff but mostly Borealis) goes to to accommodate you and your continual bullshit.

Integrity can be hard at times, ask someone who has some.

How would he recognize it in someone else?

If he couldn't recognise it then he wouldn't have been able to select against it so consistently in his choices for go-to media and political personalities.

It's what plants crave.

  • RickB
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1252
Borealis does seem biased to me but it's pretty hard for people to completely overcome all their biases. We all have them and they will inevitably show up.



Of course Borealis is biased. She is an ordinary human being and you are a wilfully ignorant and cowardly despicable liar. Would be hard not to be.

The remarkable bit is the lengths Borealis (and the rest of the staff but mostly Borealis) goes to to accommodate you and your continual bullshit.

Integrity can be hard at times, ask someone who has some.


Dave, the champion of truthiness!!  One must remember that to Dave Truth merely means conformity to the lies of the Bible.

So, don't judge any of Dave's arguments as having anything to do with what is normally recognized  as 'truth' cause Dave doesn't have any knowledge of nor does he recognize any of that as being any sort of 'truth'.

Fucking children, keeping slaves, non-whites being non-humans, sure, those are all true and acceptable.

Just read Dave's posts.  More than enough evidence.
  • Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 05:37:55 PM by RickB

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1253
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1254
Borealis does seem biased to me but it's pretty hard for people to completely overcome all their biases. We all have them and they will inevitably show up.



Of course Borealis is biased. She is a ordinary human being and you are a wilfully ignorant and cowardly despicable liar. Would be hard not to be.

The remarkable bit is the lengths Borealis (and the rest of the staff but mostly Borealis) goes to to accommodate you and your continual bullshit.

Integrity can be hard at times, ask someone who has some.

How would he recognize it in someone else?
they would agree with him!
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Sea Star
  • Not an octohatter
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1255
Borealis does seem biased to me but it's pretty hard for people to completely overcome all their biases. We all have them and they will inevitably show up.



Of course Borealis is biased. She is a ordinary human being and you are a wilfully ignorant and cowardly despicable liar. Would be hard not to be.

The remarkable bit is the lengths Borealis (and the rest of the staff but mostly Borealis) goes to to accommodate you and your continual bullshit.

Integrity can be hard at times, ask someone who has some.

How would he recognize it in someone else?

If he couldn't recognise it then he wouldn't have been able to select against it so consistently in his choices for go-to media and political personalities.


Good point - the evidence certainly supports that!

  • RickB
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1256
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.


So true.  We have seen again and again where if a single reference supports Dave's position then any position that refutes or completely contradict Dave's position is summarily dismissed. 

Dave continues to be unable to defend his child sex, slavery, or white supremacist positions, all while insisting that these positions are supported by his christian god.

Simply amazing.


  • RickB
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1257
Something that always struck me as racist, was when Dave claims that the Wai Wai (sp) called upon Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) to solve the problem with not enough food.  Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) referred them to his son Dave (son of god?).  Dave proclaims that he solved their problem instantly.  And claimed that they were eternally grateful.

Dave's status as the successor of god (son of god) was assured.  The first step to Dave being recognized as a divine person.




Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1258
shades of poisonwood bible in there
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1259
... his christian god.

Dave's god was created in Dave's image.
He doesn't seem to have too much to do with the deity I was told about in my christian youth.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1260
Something that always struck me as racist, was when Dave claims that the Wai Wai (sp) called upon Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) to solve the problem with not enough food.  Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) referred them to his son Dave (son of god?).  Dave proclaims that he solved their problem instantly.  And claimed that they were eternally grateful.

Dave's status as the successor of god (son of god) was assured.  The first step to Dave being recognized as a divine person.
I don't remember that one...
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • RickB
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1261
Something that always struck me as racist, was when Dave claims that the Wai Wai (sp) called upon Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) to solve the problem with not enough food.  Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) referred them to his son Dave (son of god?).  Dave proclaims that he solved their problem instantly.  And claimed that they were eternally grateful.

Dave's status as the successor of god (son of god) was assured.  The first step to Dave being recognized as a divine person.
I don't remember that one...


As I remember, not going to bother to quote, a large village was not being supported by their fields. So Dave decreed that the village be split into smaller villages and use lands sufficient to support that village, from an agricultural perspective. 

Dave declares himself the savior of the first village by his divine advice.  Claims that his divinity is supported by the 'tribes'.


Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1262
Basically, defending the south's position in the civil war cannot be divorced from the south's causes for engaging in the war which were explicitly given as the right to maintain slavery. Whatever, er, shithole the North might have been is entirely irrelevant since the explicit reasoning for secession and hence the war itself was the right to maintain the institution of chattel slavery. There is no argument that can give the south even a tiny bit of redemption since they fought explicitly to preserve their right to own human beings.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1263
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.


So true.  We have seen again and again where if a single reference supports Dave's position then any position that refutes or completely contradict Dave's position is summarily dismissed. 

Dave continues to be unable to defend his child sex, slavery, or white supremacist positions, all while insisting that these positions are supported by his christian god.

Simply amazing.


Nope.  I support THAT marriage.  That one marriage because it was reported to be a happy one.  Other marriages with 15 year old brides are not so happy.  Someone should try to influence the tribe to change those situations.

This is a science forum.

Take your non-evidence based preaching somewhere else please.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1264
Something that always struck me as racist, was when Dave claims that the Wai Wai (sp) called upon Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) to solve the problem with not enough food.  Dave's father (ie: god's representative on earth) referred them to his son Dave (son of god?).  Dave proclaims that he solved their problem instantly.  And claimed that they were eternally grateful.

Dave's status as the successor of god (son of god) was assured.  The first step to Dave being recognized as a divine person.




Lol.

You're an idiot.

Pretty much just the opposite happened which you would know if you would actually read what I write instead of reading what other people write about me which is usually full of spin and lies.  I went there with a request to "help them feed themselves more sustainably."  There is a habit among indigenous tribes like this to think the the white man has better ways.  Boy are they wrong!   I went there hoping to help them with my white man ideas and I ended learning from them instead.  About this time, I began reading Weston Price's book where he visited numerous indigenous people groups and all the ones that were eating native foods had perfect teeth and perfect health.

This is a science forum.  So learn to read.  Learn to think for yourself.  Don't depend on others to think for you.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1265
Basically, defending the south's position in the civil war cannot be divorced from the south's causes for engaging in the war which were explicitly given as the right to maintain slavery. Whatever, er, shithole the North might have been is entirely irrelevant since the explicit reasoning for secession and hence the war itself was the right to maintain the institution of chattel slavery. There is no argument that can give the south even a tiny bit of redemption since they fought explicitly to preserve their right to own human beings.
If you really believe what you are saying here, then you are automatically an advocate of World Government.  Which I think will be an even greater evil.  Read Orwell's book "1984"

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1266
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.  Multiple accounts by actual child brides refute this impression.  Dave sides with the South African, draw your own conclusion.

Dave on the treatment of Southern Slaves:
A single reporter states that Calhoun's slaves live in a veritable utopia, where they are able to grow some food on their masters land and derive some income from that labor.  Dave equates chattel slavery (human ownership) with having a job (any and all jobs).  Dave states that because Calhoun does not rail against the mistreatment of slaves this means that slaves are not mistreated anywhere in the south.  Dave ascribes to Calhoun some sort of perfect knowledge and perfect judgement, in that if slaves were mistreated anywhere in the south that Calhoun would be aware of it and if it existed would rail against it.  That Calhoun did not rail against it means that mistreatment of slaves did not exist in that south.  Therefore slaves were not mistreated anywhere in the south.

Dave on neo-Nazis:
When neo-Nazis protest armed with M-16's and AK-47's this does not mean that they are violent or threatening counter-protesters.  No, no, they are merely asserting a right to self defense against counter-protesters not so armed.  As if someone without a firearm is somehow a lethal threat to someone with a firearm.  And that when the side with firearms uses a car to murder someone, their excuse is that the other side was treating while not having firearms.

It seems Dave that there is a trend with these positions (and this is not even a complete list).  That being that by ignoring counter evidence, you support having sex with children, you support slavery and that you support neo-Nazis.

To counter this impression, Dave, you need to address, with evidence not simply banal assertions, each of these points.


You are the most dishonest lying douche bag I've ever met.

  • Fenrir
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1267
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.


So true.  We have seen again and again where if a single reference supports Dave's position then any position that refutes or completely contradict Dave's position is summarily dismissed. 

Dave continues to be unable to defend his child sex, slavery, or white supremacist positions, all while insisting that these positions are supported by his christian god.

Simply amazing.


Nope.  I support THAT marriage.  That one marriage because it was reported to be a happy one.  Other marriages with 15 year old brides are not so happy.  Someone should try to influence the tribe to change those situations.

This is a science forum.

Take your non-evidence based preaching somewhere else please.

Here's where the intellectual dishonesty creeps in.

Noone has any information to offer on that particular marriage. Not David, not our eponymous travel writer. Noone.

What has been presented is an impression of the wedding ceremony, by a guest, held in front of a large crowd many of whom are embedded in the culture and have varying degrees of dependence on the groom.

The details and particulars of the marriage itself remain unknown, though numerous others have commented on such things and David has been directed to links documenting such on a number of occasions.

It's all part of David's all/some/none deficiency.
  • Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 07:29:19 PM by Fenrir
It's what plants crave.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1268
Read Orwell's book "1984"

I skimmed the good parts which is just as good as being well-read. Better, even.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1269
Borealis does seem biased to me but it's pretty hard for people to completely overcome all their biases. We all have them and they will inevitably show up.



Of course Borealis is biased. She is an ordinary human being and you are a wilfully ignorant and cowardly despicable liar. Would be hard not to be.

The remarkable bit is the lengths Borealis (and the rest of the staff but mostly Borealis) goes to to accommodate you and your continual bullshit.

Integrity can be hard at times, ask someone who has some.

I don't spew bullshit.  Others do in response to me.  And yes, she is patient with them.  All I do is post on topics that interest me and I always try to find the truth in detail.  Others get mad because the truth is painful sometimes.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1270
Basically, defending the south's position in the civil war cannot be divorced from the south's causes for engaging in the war which were explicitly given as the right to maintain slavery. Whatever, er, shithole the North might have been is entirely irrelevant since the explicit reasoning for secession and hence the war itself was the right to maintain the institution of chattel slavery. There is no argument that can give the south even a tiny bit of redemption since they fought explicitly to preserve their right to own human beings.
If you really believe what you are saying here, then you are automatically an advocate of World Government.  Which I think will be an even greater evil.  Read Orwell's book "1984"
I have, you should.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1271
Others get mad because the truth is painful sometimes.

Example: Dave Hawkins is a Nazi.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1272
Neither Hawkins nor Trump can bring themselves to call out the people* who marched with Nazis in Charlottesville because they were on the right team, and those protesting against them were on the wrong team.

* very fine people
you are lying about me here. It's a subtle lie where you use Spin and innuendo. I would never defend and never have defended Nazi ideology, but I will always defend people's right to speak their mind and to March and organize peacefully.

I absolutely denounce Nazi ideology, slavery, and violence such as driving the car into the crowd.

As for Trump's comment about very fine people I never accuse or defend a Man Without first hearing what he has to say for himself about the comment. And I have not read anything about what he was referring to, so I have to withhold judgement at this time.
He was referring to the events in Charlottesville, where one side killed a woman with a car, and paraded through the town with Tiki torches chanting "Blood and Soil". If you think anyone marching with them is a "fine person" then your definition and mine will never line up.
Here's the full text ... as I thought ... you people have twisted Trump's words to make him look like a racist. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1273
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.


So true.  We have seen again and again where if a single reference supports Dave's position then any position that refutes or completely contradict Dave's position is summarily dismissed. 

Dave continues to be unable to defend his child sex, slavery, or white supremacist positions, all while insisting that these positions are supported by his christian god.

Simply amazing.


Nope.  I support THAT marriage.  That one marriage because it was reported to be a happy one.  Other marriages with 15 year old brides are not so happy.  Someone should try to influence the tribe to change those situations.

This is a science forum.

Take your non-evidence based preaching somewhere else please.

Here's where the intellectual dishonesty creeps in.

Noone has any information to offer on that particular marriage. Not David, not our eponymous travel writer. Noone.

What has been presented is an impression of the wedding ceremony, by a guest, held in front of a large crowd many of whom are embedded in the culture and have varying degrees of dependence on the groom.

The details and particulars of the marriage itself remain unknown, though numerous others have commented on such things and David has been directed to links documenting such on a number of occasions.

It's all part of David's all/some/none deficiency.
She lived in the village and made friends there.  Jesus Christ.  She was qualified to give an opinion.
 Really ... take your non-evidence based preaching somewhere else.

  • Sea Star
  • Not an octohatter
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1274
Neither Hawkins nor Trump can bring themselves to call out the people* who marched with Nazis in Charlottesville because they were on the right team, and those protesting against them were on the wrong team.

* very fine people
you are lying about me here. It's a subtle lie where you use Spin and innuendo. I would never defend and never have defended Nazi ideology, but I will always defend people's right to speak their mind and to March and organize peacefully.

I absolutely denounce Nazi ideology, slavery, and violence such as driving the car into the crowd.

As for Trump's comment about very fine people I never accuse or defend a Man Without first hearing what he has to say for himself about the comment. And I have not read anything about what he was referring to, so I have to withhold judgement at this time.
He was referring to the events in Charlottesville, where one side killed a woman with a car, and paraded through the town with Tiki torches chanting "Blood and Soil". If you think anyone marching with them is a "fine person" then your definition and mine will never line up.
Here's the full text ... as I thought ... you people have twisted Trump's words to make him look like a racist. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662
Quote from: article
TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.
So some neo-Nazis did not identify as such, some of them were fine people? Because they didn't admit to being neo-Nazis?
How is that not racist? What can you add from the article for additional context to change the meaning?