Skip to main content

TR Memescape

  • asshole mod badgers

Topic: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War? (Read 6924 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1300
You obviously have not read "1984" ... it describes an all encompassing government which controls and manipulates citizens lives.
That's all you know about the book, isn't it?
Quote
And if you didn't tow the party line, you got re-educated by the Ministry of Love (i.e. tortured).
And that's what caught your eye while Hawkinsing the Wiki entry.
Quote
The United States was set up to be a loose federation of sovereign states, but would-be Big Brothers influenced things over time to give the central government more and more power so that by 1860, it was powerful enough to dictate to the South what they could and couldn't do. 
Really? THAT is what happened?

Why are you lying, dave? You yourself had said (repeatedly) that Lincoln did NOT seek the abolishment of slavery in the Southern states.
Quote
Bad situation.  Never intended by our founders.  Similar situation to the government described in 1984. 
:facepalm:
The fact you have not read the book becomes more and more evident.
Quote
Notice that N. Korea - in contrast to the antebellum South IS truly sovereign.  They can do whatever the hell they want to their citizens and no one invades them and takes over like the North did to the South. 
The North did not "invade and take over" the South you idiot. We both know that's not how the war stareted.
It seems like the only way to defend your views is to refer to some alternative History that never happened in this reality.
Quote
Does this mean they are a good country?  Of course not.  But at least they are sovereign.  And it's more important in our world for countries to maintain their sovereignty than for them to be good.  Let that sink in.
OK, I'm gonna let that sink in. But I hope you'll maitain the same stance for other countries as well. And see where that LEADS.
Quote
  Badness can be changed over time. And it can be changed through peaceful means.  Sovereignty on the other hand, once lost, is very hard to regain
So turning 'bad' people into 'good' can be achieved "through peaceful means", but oppressed people being freed is much harder? Is THAT what history teaches you, dave?

Perhaps you should check the textbooks again.
Quote
and what you end up with if you lose sovereignty is a super government which inevitably will go bad and be just like Big Brother described in 1984. 
Except 1984 was not about sovereignity of nations, but freedom of the individual.

You have no IDEA what the book is about, do you?

Quote
And that I'm afraid ... is where we are headed in our world today ... regardless of who is POTUS.
We all know your views, dave. Your PMD cult has seen to that.

But tell me: How are you sure Trump is not the Antichrist that will make all that possible? How do you know he's a champion of those fighting against it?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1301
"What Trump says" has nothing to do with facts, dave.

YOU STFU if you don't care about anything but parroting what your Glorious Leader said.

It was the SAME RALLY, organised by the SAME people.

You can't whitewwash this, no matter how hard you try.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1302
I'm not taking your word for any fucking details.  I don't trust you as far as I could throw you.

Trump seems to believe that there were (a) people there peacefully protesting the removal of the statues and that they had honorable reasons - namely, they don't want history to be erased, and (b) there were Nazis that showed up the next day and engaged in a very offensive march - and he rightly condemned them.

So STFU until you can get your facts right.
You think "Trump seems to believe " is all the fact verification you need?
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1303
Listen, Vox, let me school you a moment on truth ... and science ... the two are closely related ...

1) People here are saying "Trump is a racist blah blah blah" but they are basing that on a quote mine of his words.  Very dishonest.
2) My "Trump seems to believe" comment is MY COMMENT based on ACTUALLY READING TRUMP'S OWN FUCKING WORDS ... rather than basing my opinions on dishonest fucking quote mines.

If you want to be good scientist .... START BEING HONEST.

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1304
:facepalm:

How do "TRUMP'S OWN FUCKING WORDS" change the meaning, dave?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1305
Listen, Vox, let me school you a moment on truth ... and science ... the two are closely related ...

1) People here are saying "Trump is a racist blah blah blah" but they are basing that on a quote mine of his words.  Very dishonest.
2) My "Trump seems to believe" comment is MY COMMENT based on ACTUALLY READING TRUMP'S OWN FUCKING WORDS ... rather than basing my opinions on dishonest fucking quote mines.

If you want to be good scientist .... START BEING HONEST.
Hawkins's trademark dishonesty: accusing others of dishonesty without identifying any    
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1306
You are being dishonest in almost every post and I'm identifying it and correcting it constantly.  There must be something wrong with your brain if you don't see that. 

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1307
Basically, defending the south's position in the civil war cannot be divorced from the south's causes for engaging in the war which were explicitly given as the right to maintain slavery. Whatever, er, shithole the North might have been is entirely irrelevant since the explicit reasoning for secession and hence the war itself was the right to maintain the institution of chattel slavery. There is no argument that can give the south even a tiny bit of redemption since they fought explicitly to preserve their right to own human beings.
If you really believe what you are saying here, then you are automatically an advocate of World Government.  Which I think will be an even greater evil.  Read Orwell's book "1984"

Several things.

1) 1984 did not state there was a world government (and at most, implies that there may be a possibility of one, if I remember the conversation with O'Brien).

2) 1984 was certainly not about the dangers of a world government. If anything, the closest is that it warned about the dangers of an all-encompassing government - one which decided what was true, what was right, what was given, and what was taken. The closest we have these days probably is North Korea. Which is nowhere near a world government.

3) nothing in Testy's post has to do with a world government - or even an all-encompassing government. The idea that states are allowed to object to the treatment of members of other states in no way implies support for a world government.
You obviously have not read "1984" ... it describes an all encompassing government which controls and manipulates citizens lives.  And if you didn't tow the party line, you got re-educated by the Ministry of Love (i.e. tortured).  The United States was set up to be a loose federation of sovereign states, but would-be Big Brothers influenced things over time to give the central government more and more power so that by 1860, it was powerful enough to dictate to the South what they could and couldn't do.  Bad situation.  Never intended by our founders.  Similar situation to the government described in 1984.  Notice that N. Korea - in contrast to the antebellum South IS truly sovereign.  They can do whatever the hell they want to their citizens and no one invades them and takes over like the North did to the South.  Does this mean they are a good country?  Of course not.  But at least they are sovereign.  And it's more important in our world for countries to maintain their sovereignty than for them to be good.  Let that sink in.  Badness can be changed over time. And it can be changed through peaceful means.  Sovereignty on the other hand, once lost, is very hard to regain and what you end up with if you lose sovereignty is a super government which inevitably will go bad and be just like Big Brother described in 1984. 

And that I'm afraid ... is where we are headed in our world today ... regardless of who is POTUS.
Does this mean you agree with Testy and were previously wrong?
Are we there yet?

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1308
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.  Multiple accounts by actual child brides refute this impression.  Dave sides with the South African, draw your own conclusion.

Dave on the treatment of Southern Slaves:
A single reporter states that Calhoun's slaves live in a veritable utopia, where they are able to grow some food on their masters land and derive some income from that labor.  Dave equates chattel slavery (human ownership) with having a job (any and all jobs).  Dave states that because Calhoun does not rail against the mistreatment of slaves this means that slaves are not mistreated anywhere in the south.  Dave ascribes to Calhoun some sort of perfect knowledge and perfect judgement, in that if slaves were mistreated anywhere in the south that Calhoun would be aware of it and if it existed would rail against it.  That Calhoun did not rail against it means that mistreatment of slaves did not exist in that south.  Therefore slaves were not mistreated anywhere in the south.

Dave on neo-Nazis:
When neo-Nazis protest armed with M-16's and AK-47's this does not mean that they are violent or threatening counter-protesters.  No, no, they are merely asserting a right to self defense against counter-protesters not so armed.  As if someone without a firearm is somehow a lethal threat to someone with a firearm.  And that when the side with firearms uses a car to murder someone, their excuse is that the other side was treating while not having firearms.

It seems Dave that there is a trend with these positions (and this is not even a complete list).  That being that by ignoring counter evidence, you support having sex with children, you support slavery and that you support neo-Nazis.

To counter this impression, Dave, you need to address, with evidence not simply banal assertions, each of these points.
You are the most dishonest lying douche bag I've ever met.
The usual unsupportable claim of lying. obviously to avoid addressing the real issues.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1309
You are being dishonest in almost every post and I'm identifying it and correcting it constantly.  There must be something wrong with your brain if you don't see that. 
nope. You haven't identified a single dishonesty. Feel free to prove me wrong by actually , you know, IDENTIFYING one. Quote something, show how it's UNTRUE (not just an opinion you disagree with) AND that it's intended to deceive.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1310
Neither Hawkins nor Trump can bring themselves to call out the people* who marched with Nazis in Charlottesville because they were on the right team, and those protesting against them were on the wrong team.

* very fine people
you are lying about me here. It's a subtle lie where you use Spin and innuendo. I would never defend and never have defended Nazi ideology, but I will always defend people's right to speak their mind and to March and organize peacefully.

I absolutely denounce Nazi ideology, slavery, and violence such as driving the car into the crowd.

As for Trump's comment about very fine people I never accuse or defend a Man Without first hearing what he has to say for himself about the comment. And I have not read anything about what he was referring to, so I have to withhold judgement at this time.
He was referring to the events in Charlottesville, where one side killed a woman with a car, and paraded through the town with Tiki torches chanting "Blood and Soil". If you think anyone marching with them is a "fine person" then your definition and mine will never line up.
Here's the full text ... as I thought ... you people have twisted Trump's words to make him look like a racist. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662
Quote
REPORTER: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

TRUMP: I do think there is blame - yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there's blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group - excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

REPORTER: George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down - excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It's fine, you're changing history, you're changing culture, and you had people - and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally - but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats - you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: I just didn't understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I'm sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call 'em. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit [lie - JonF]. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final - does anybody have a final question? You have an infrastructure question.
Hey, Dave, how did he know there were "people that were very fine people ... many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, ... a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest"?  Let's see the video.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1311
Dave on child sex with adults:
A single South African English teacher writes that a child bride is happy with their situation.
That situation - again - is nothing more than a prospective marriage. 

Again: we have no idea how that worked out, and no particular reason to assume it worked out any better than that of the other women whose testimony Hawkins is so eager to ignore.
So true.  We have seen again and again where if a single reference supports Dave's position then any position that refutes or completely contradict Dave's position is summarily dismissed. 

Dave continues to be unable to defend his child sex, slavery, or white supremacist positions, all while insisting that these positions are supported by his christian god.

Simply amazing.
Nope.  I support THAT marriage.  That one marriage because it was reported to be a happy one.  Other marriages with 15 year old brides are not so happy.  Someone should try to influence the tribe to change those situations.

This is a science forum.

Take your non-evidence based preaching somewhere else please.
Here's where the intellectual dishonesty creeps in.

Noone has any information to offer on that particular marriage. Not David, not our eponymous travel writer. Noone.

What has been presented is an impression of the wedding ceremony, by a guest, held in front of a large crowd many of whom are embedded in the culture and have varying degrees of dependence on the groom.

The details and particulars of the marriage itself remain unknown, though numerous others have commented on such things and David has been directed to links documenting such on a number of occasions.

It's all part of David's all/some/none deficiency.
She lived in the village and made friends there.  Jesus Christ.  She was qualified to give an opinion.
But not as qualified as the Maasai women who lived the nightmare.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1312
"Dave, our point is that you don't get to be called "a very fine person" when you march with actual fucking Neo-Nazis and white supremacists"

I'm not sure that these "very fine persons" actually marched with actual fucking Neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
Who were marching with the self-declared Nazis and white supremacists, then? Seems there were only two sides to be on.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1313
I'm not taking your word for any fucking details.  I don't trust you as far as I could throw you.

Trump seems to believe that there were (a) people there peacefully protesting the removal of the statues and that they had honorable reasons - namely, they don't want history to be erased, and (b) there were Nazis that showed up the next day and engaged in a very offensive march - and he rightly condemned them.

So STFU until you can get your facts right.
What Trump seems to believe isn't evidence. In fact it strongly suggests he's wrong.

Two groups.  With which one did they march?
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • JonF
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1314
Listen, Vox, let me school you a moment on truth ... and science ... the two are closely related ...

1) People here are saying "Trump is a racist blah blah blah" but they are basing that on a quote mine of his words.
You have not demonstrated any quote mine. You just linked to a transcript.  I don't see any quote mining.  Well?

Quote
2) My "Trump seems to believe" comment is MY COMMENT based on ACTUALLY READING TRUMP'S OWN FUCKING WORDS
Nobody's arguing  that Trump doesn't believe that. The point is that he made it up, as he does so many of his beliefs. What evidence supports his belief[1]?
None.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1315
Basically, defending the south's position in the civil war cannot be divorced from the south's causes for engaging in the war which were explicitly given as the right to maintain slavery. Whatever, er, shithole the North might have been is entirely irrelevant since the explicit reasoning for secession and hence the war itself was the right to maintain the institution of chattel slavery. There is no argument that can give the south even a tiny bit of redemption since they fought explicitly to preserve their right to own human beings.
If you really believe what you are saying here, then you are automatically an advocate of World Government.  Which I think will be an even greater evil.  Read Orwell's book "1984"

You didn't read that book, did you Dave? Because it sure as shit is not about world government.

Nor does pointing out that the South fought to keep slavery means you advocate world government. That is a complete non sequitur.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1316
Quote
And it's more important in our world for countries to maintain their sovereignty than for them to be good.

Quote
Badness can be changed over time. And it can be changed through peaceful means.  Sovereignty on the other hand, once lost, is very hard to regain

I guess next time someone plans genocide, we should just let them get on with it. Because badness can be changed over time, through peaceful means. This will bring all those murdered people back I guess?

But hey, at least no-one will have messed with their sovereignty because, you know, it is totally impossible to briefly occupy a sovereign state and then stop doing so once you have stopped the atrocities going on there.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1317
Basically, defending the south's position in the civil war cannot be divorced from the south's causes for engaging in the war which were explicitly given as the right to maintain slavery. Whatever, er, shithole the North might have been is entirely irrelevant since the explicit reasoning for secession and hence the war itself was the right to maintain the institution of chattel slavery. There is no argument that can give the south even a tiny bit of redemption since they fought explicitly to preserve their right to own human beings.
If you really believe what you are saying here, then you are automatically an advocate of World Government.  Which I think will be an even greater evil.  Read Orwell's book "1984"

You didn't read that book, did you Dave? Because it sure as shit is not about world government.

Nor does pointing out that the South fought to keep slavery means you advocate world government. That is a complete non sequitur.
Hell, he thought Medieval England was "Orwellian."   Its his catch all for "everything that Dave doesn't like in the world."
While you were getting your PhD in virology, I got my PhD in truth detection. :wave:  Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1318
This post is worth savoring for its full Hawkinsian farcical glory.

First, Hawkins dons his armor of self-righteousness, and mounts his High Horse of condescension:
Listen, Vox, let me school you a moment on truth ... and science ... the two are closely related ...
:rofl: 
Yes, the guy with the self-bestowed "PhD in Truth Detection" - who internationally, famously, sucks at science - is going to "school" the career scientist in ... "truth and science" .  :rofl:
Quote
1) People here are saying "Trump is a racist blah blah blah" but they are basing that on a quote mine of his words.
Off to a great start!  People are basing "blah blah blah" on some "quote mine" - that is not even identified, let alone justified as being a "quote mine".
Quote
Very dishonest.
:rofl:  Some unidentified, alleged "quote mine" by some unidentified "people here" is a "quote mine" - by some unarticulated argument. And that's "very dishonest". 

Is everyone starting to feel properly "schooled" here?

Quote
2) My "Trump seems to believe" comment is MY COMMENT based on ACTUALLY READING TRUMP'S OWN FUCKING WORDS ... rather than basing my opinions on dishonest fucking quote mines.
But the POINT is who was marching with whom. Neither your comment - excuse me YOUR COMMENT - nor what "Trump seems to believe" has anything to do with that. The fact remains: he said there were "very fine people" on "both sides".  One of those sides had people marching with torches chanting Nazi slogans. Most of us think that if you march with people chanting Nazi slogans, you're not a "very fine person".  But this is a matter of opinion, not really "truth" vs. "untruth". Apparently in Trump's opinion - and yours - one can march with Nazis, Klanners and allied white supremacists and STILL be a "very fine person".  And you're certainly entitled to your opinion!  But others are entitled to THEIR opinions ABOUT your opinion.

Quote
If you want to be good scientist .... START BEING HONEST.
Well, there's zero chance you'll ever be a scientist, let alone a good one.
But if you should ever conceive a notion you'd like to be at least less of an asshole, stop accusing people of dishonesty without any support.

Anyway... it seems to me Hawkins does this a lot: dons his armor of self-righteousness, mounts his High Horse of condescension, and then proceeds to spew out whatever words come to him, confident in the knowledge that said words will be full of Truth, Science and Schooling (however incoherent they seem to everyone else) just because he's such a righteous, brilliant (and stable!) genius. 
Just like Trump.  (See sig, below)
  • Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 06:52:04 AM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1319

You didn't read that book, did you Dave? Because it sure as shit is not about world government.


Suspicion not confirmed: It looks like there was no "1984" edition in the series Classics Illustrated.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1320
"The fact remains: he said there were "very fine people" on "both sides".  One of those sides had people marching with torches chanting Nazi slogans."

Apparently not is Trump's mind.  Note his actual words again ...
Quote
TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group - excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
Now it could be that these "fine people" DID march with the Nazis ... I don't know ... but I find that hard to believe.  YOU certainly have not convinced me of that with anything factual.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1321
Note this paragraph too ...
Quote
TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down - excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It's fine, you're changing history, you're changing culture, and you had people - and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally - but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats - you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

Trump clearly condemns the Nazis.

And it appears that either ...

(a) he is not aware of the "fine people" protesting the statue removal ALSO marching with Nazis, or
(b) he is more educated than you and me and he KNOWS THEY DID NOT MARCH with the Nazis

Of course it could be that they did march with the Nazis ... AND Trump knows it ... AND he doesn't care ... but that seems rather unlikely.

Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1322
Are you interested in TRUTH?  or not?

  • Faid
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1323
:facepalm:
WHO ARE these "fine people", dave?

Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Was the Slavery Issue the Primary Cause of the Civil War?
Reply #1324
"The fact remains: he said there were "very fine people" on "both sides".  One of those sides had people marching with torches chanting Nazi slogans."

Apparently not is Trump's mind.  Note his actual words again ...
Quote
TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group - excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
Now it could be that these "fine people" DID march with the Nazis ... I don't know ... but I find that hard to believe.  YOU certainly have not convinced me of that with anything factual.
Right. The videos of the guys with tiki torches chanting Nazi slogans are not "factual".  ::)
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins