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Topic: Fighting the gerrymander (Read 1940 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #25
https://thinkprogress.org/supreme-court-snatches-victory-away-from-the-forces-of-gerrymandering-8a92d35b87db#.uh9vlok5j




I've read a few stories on this ruling, and I still don't really understand the implications. Why was the one district okay?

  • uncool
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #26

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #27
Seems legit.
Truth is out of style

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #28
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #29
You guys need an electoral commission. That's what we use to set our boundaries. Non-partisan, with boundaries based purely on population numbers.
Truth is out of style

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #30
yes.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #31
Bet you'll never guess why it was decided that we needed an electoral commission to do the job. ;)
Truth is out of style

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #32
can't imagine. Good planning?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #33
No. Long history of gerrymanders.
Truth is out of style

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #34
I'm shocked.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #35
Unfortunately it doesn't stop fuckwits getting elected. They are, at least, truly democratically-elected fuckwits, but given that they are still fuckwits it could be argued that this is not a noticeable improvement.
Truth is out of style

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #36
People are dumbfucks.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • MikeS
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #37
You guys need an electoral commission. That's what we use to set our boundaries. Non-partisan, with boundaries based purely on population numbers.
Even then gerrymander can occur.  Take the suburbs vs. city argument.  Lump the city centers into one district and the surrounding suburbs are the population center of a large rural district that extends outwards.  So you have a radial type of district boundaries that doesn't "look" gerrymandered since "The city folks get the city vote and country folks get the country vote."

If you sliced it THROUGH the city then the district outcomes would be far different.

County boundaries are old enough in most states that they don't always represent clear and concise segregation lines (because really, at the heart of gerrymander is the parsing of minorities) and they could be used as dividing lines to clear out the perception of gerrymander.  But city and town boundaries still hold to past segregation in many areas so they don't serve the purpose for dividing districts as well.

  • Fenrir
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #38
You guys need an electoral commission. That's what we use to set our boundaries. Non-partisan, with boundaries based purely on population numbers.
Even then gerrymander can occur.  Take the suburbs vs. city argument.  Lump the city centers into one district and the surrounding suburbs are the population center of a large rural district that extends outwards.  So you have a radial type of district boundaries that doesn't "look" gerrymandered since "The city folks get the city vote and country folks get the country vote."

If you sliced it THROUGH the city then the district outcomes would be far different.

County boundaries are old enough in most states that they don't always represent clear and concise segregation lines (because really, at the heart of gerrymander is the parsing of minorities) and they could be used as dividing lines to clear out the perception of gerrymander.  But city and town boundaries still hold to past segregation in many areas so they don't serve the purpose for dividing districts as well.

The AEC is required to take all that into account.

The results might not be perfect but the process is constantly being revisited and we haven't yet had a repeat of the "only needs 19% to keep office*" episode that that lead to the current system.


*obligatory "don't you worry about that, you can lead a horse to water but you can't boil an egg with one foot either side of a barbed-wire fence**" reference. Ah, the good old days.

**joke*** for insiders.

***extra joke for those that were living here at the time.
  • Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 06:27:51 AM by Fenrir
It's what plants crave.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #39
The various political parties are allowed to make submissions to the AEC when a revision to boundaries is necessary because of changing populations. Those can be fun, because obviously the buggers are always trying to rig it in their own favour.
Truth is out of style

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #40

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #41
he's gotten a lot of mileage out of the terminator reference gimmick

"as governor I vill terminate ze deficit"

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #42
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/supreme-court-gerrymandering-wisconsin-arguments-243401

I could punch roberts. he's said and done a lot of things I have strongly disagreed with, but I've never seen cult of ignorance masturbation from him before
Quote
He said voters will look askance at the notion that districts failed to meet a complex formula that assesses wasted votes and a so-called "efficiency gap." The chief justice called such evidence "sociological gobbedlygook," or at least suggested some will see it that way.

"The intelligent man on the street is going to say, 'That's a bunch of baloney. It must be because the Supreme Court favored Democrats or Republicans,'" Roberts said. "That's going to cause a very serious harm to the status...of the decisions of this court in the eyes of the country."
unless he really just meant he was worried about that perception, and did not mean to imply there was any merit to it.  ....  certainly clarity and simplicity are important if they're going to lay down a new standard.

but kennedy can and might save the day regardless of what roberts does.  thinking / hoping he'll vote to strike down the gerrymander in this specific case, and write a very carefully worded opinion that calls these formulas "evidence" of unconstitutional gerrymander, but cautions that they are not conclusive on their own and a simple and universal test is probably not possible.

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #43
Unfortunately it doesn't stop fuckwits getting elected. They are, at least, truly democratically-elected fuckwits, but given that they are still fuckwits it could be argued that this is not a noticeable improvement.
In theory, we could at least have a more representative spectrum of dumbasses, politically speaking. 

  • ravenscape
  • Administrator
  • Triggered
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #44
Some interesting maps.







Article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/13/how-doug-jones-lost-in-nearly-every-congressional-district-but-still-won-the-state/?utm_term=.4f265d47a704

This district is a product of the voting rights act and before there was a minority-majority district, Black voters in Alabama had no voice at all.  I have no idea how the protuberances in this district would affect the outcomes in Districts 6 and 1 if they didn't exist, but as populations shift over time, some districts like this one may harm more than help.

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #45
Can't see twitter from work, but I assume that's the map showing the AL voting results? Even though the Dems got a majority in the state, the GOP would have won 6/7 of the house seats.  That's some fucked up gerrymandering there.

  • ravenscape
  • Administrator
  • Triggered
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #46
Can't see twitter from work, but I assume that's the map showing the AL voting results? Even though the Dems got a majority in the state, the GOP would have won 6/7 of the house seats.  That's some fucked up gerrymandering there.

Yeah.  There are actually 3 maps.

The 6th disrict was a product of the voting rights act, I think - it gave black voters in Alabama representation where they had none before.  Over time, though, the other districts have increased black populations, and giving the 6th district carve-outs from other districts back to them might change the dynamics of a couple other districts.  Or might dilute the black vote to the point where they are back to no voice at all, depending on how such a change were done.

Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #47
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/supreme-court-gerrymandering-wisconsin-arguments-243401

I could punch roberts. he's said and done a lot of things I have strongly disagreed with, but I've never seen cult of ignorance masturbation from him before
Quote
He said voters will look askance at the notion that districts failed to meet a complex formula that assesses wasted votes and a so-called "efficiency gap." The chief justice called such evidence "sociological gobbedlygook," or at least suggested some will see it that way.

"The intelligent man on the street is going to say, 'That's a bunch of baloney. It must be because the Supreme Court favored Democrats or Republicans,'" Roberts said. "That's going to cause a very serious harm to the status...of the decisions of this court in the eyes of the country."
unless he really just meant he was worried about that perception, and did not mean to imply there was any merit to it.  ....  certainly clarity and simplicity are important if they're going to lay down a new standard.

but kennedy can and might save the day regardless of what roberts does.  thinking / hoping he'll vote to strike down the gerrymander in this specific case, and write a very carefully worded opinion that calls these formulas "evidence" of unconstitutional gerrymander, but cautions that they are not conclusive on their own and a simple and universal test is probably not possible.
Hi John Roberts is a trash moron and Shelby County is the worst ruling in at least a generation.

  • ksen
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #48
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/368194-federal-judges-rule-nc-congressional-district-maps-unconstitutional

Quote
A North Carolina federal court on Tuesday struck down the state's GOP-drawn congressional map, saying the districts result in partisan gerrymandering, according to multiple reports.

In a nearly 200-page opinion, the three-judge panel ruled that state Republicans drew excessively partisan districts when previously ordered to redraw the state's congressional map.

"Having concluded that the 2016 Plan violates the Equal Protection Clause, the First Amendment and Article I of the Constitution, we now must determine the appropriate remedy," the court wrote in its opinion.

Quote
The Charlotte Observer reports that during the 2016 special legislative session, when the maps were adopted, a GOP state lawmaker said they would give Republicans a majority.

"I propose that we draw the maps to give a partisan advantage to 10 Republicans and three Democrats because I do not believe it's possible to draw a map with eleven Republicans and two Democrats," Rep. David Lewis reportedly said at the time.

And what's to stop them from just doing it again?

  • uncool
Re: Fighting the gerrymander
Reply #49
The majority decision has provisions for a "special master" in case the new plan also turns out to be bad.