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  • TalkRational: a modern liberal social ideology enshrined in message board dogma

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1
Big buttons.
Dave, it would help if you had the rudiments of knowledge about the ecology of the places you're proposing to apply things into. Because if you push the same button in one biome there's no indication that it will have the same effects in another.

What happened to rabbits when they were introduced into the UK Dave?

What happened to the same rabbits when they were introduced into Australia?

Same "big button" Dave, right? So why does nobody care about the former but the latter is considered a disaster?
It is a constant source of amazement and Fascination to me to watch grown men with Advanced Science degrees literally unable to rub two neurons together enough to realize that moving some goats and sheep from Dadanawa Ranch to Southern Guyana is in an entirely different category than bringing rabbits from overseas to Australia. Does this moron not realize that there already are herbivores of similar size and Habit in the southern Guyanese rainforest already? Like deer for example? Does he not realize that there are plenty of jungle predators to keep them under control if they were to go feral?

WTF?

WTF?

Animals only go feral if there are no other animals of similar size and habit present?

What's this then?

2
It's a real simple concept and I practice what I preach. For example, I really didn't know too much about what happens in clearings in the rainforest until I found that mongabay article. Now, thanks to that article, I know more and more importantly I know the right terms to search for to try to find more articles on the topic. Like "light gap." I had never encountered that term before, but now that I have it will help me in my literature searches. You guys should know this basic stuff as much science training as you have had. Come on. It's boring to just watch you talk out of your ass all day long.
3
Jon quit talking out of your ass. If you make an authoritative statement like that give me a citation of somebody who has knowledge based on their own experience. It's fine that you don't have your own experience, but at least have the decency to refer to someone else's work to support your authoritative statements.
4
Politics and Current Events / Re: Comic relief thread
Last post by dinosaurs! -
5
Dave, when a single tree falls it doesn't clear a saw the 300ft wide and a mile long.  You're not proposing to clear a little false here and there at the kind of rate you'd expect to be happening in the forest anyway. You wanted to "thin the canopy by 50%". All those animals attracted to light gaps by the abundance of food? Normally they live in the canopy. Remove half of it and you destroy their habitat.
Is opening up some "light gaps" comparable to those described in the article the same as thinning the entire rainforest canopy to 50%?  No I don't think so.

Did I say it was? No, no I did not. I'm pointing out to you that natural breaks in the canopy are not what you are proposing to create. They, and the huge amounts of leaching that you will open the soil up to, are not comparable to a gap in the canopy that lasts a few years at most, is rapidly colonised by shrubs and (comparatively) low growing trees that will still be supplying the thin topsoil with nutrients, and taking those nutrients up almost as fast as they are applied. The bulk of the biomass is still in the plants, not the soil. It still doesn't get a chance to build up, because those plants, being rainforest plants, are adapted to soils with very few nutrients and take everything up as fast as they can. And yes, there will be increased leaching in that little area, because there will be more rainfall reaching the forest floor in large bursts, rather than gradually as a result of being delayed by the canopy and all the plants living up there.

Quote
I stopped talking about the 50% thing when I saw too many heads exploding.  We can talk about that again later once you've gotten your heads around "light gaps."

Dave, we understand light gaps as being a standard part of rainforest ecology. They form, there;s a brief flurry of activity around them, and then they close up again. More importantly they're small and widely spaced. Totally unlike your proposals.

Dave, once you've gotten your head around basic rainforest ecology maybe you can start thinking about exactly what effects your idiotic and utterly destructive policy will have on animals and plants that depend on the canopy and near continuous rainforest cover have. How do you think sloths will be able to get to their communal middens with 330ft gaps between trees? Did you even know sloths have communal middens?
You're full of shit.  I'm tired of arguing with idiots.  Maybe I'll be in the mood another day.  Nothing will be destroyed.  I'm simply going to open up some "light gaps" and feed sheep and goats therein.  The end.
Light gaps are where a tree falls. You are going to feed sheep and goats in light gaps? It's fortunate that you actually aren't going to do this.
Light gaps inform us what will happen when we create small clearings in rainforest. And as I expected, good things happen in terms of forage growth which is undoubtedly suitable for sheep and goats, judging by the reported increase in these areas in herbivore and predator population.
"Small clearings" maybe capable of sustaining one goat or sheep. Significantly larger clearings are different. You never get this scaling thing.

You are proposing major changes that will destroy what was there and negatively affect ecosystems for miles around. Edge effect. Another critical concept you can't understand or learn.
6
Dave, when a single tree falls it doesn't clear a saw the 300ft wide and a mile long.  You're not proposing to clear a little false here and there at the kind of rate you'd expect to be happening in the forest anyway. You wanted to "thin the canopy by 50%". All those animals attracted to light gaps by the abundance of food? Normally they live in the canopy. Remove half of it and you destroy their habitat.
Is opening up some "light gaps" comparable to those described in the article the same as thinning the entire rainforest canopy to 50%?  No I don't think so.

Did I say it was? No, no I did not. I'm pointing out to you that natural breaks in the canopy are not what you are proposing to create. They, and the huge amounts of leaching that you will open the soil up to, are not comparable to a gap in the canopy that lasts a few years at most, is rapidly colonised by shrubs and (comparatively) low growing trees that will still be supplying the thin topsoil with nutrients, and taking those nutrients up almost as fast as they are applied. The bulk of the biomass is still in the plants, not the soil. It still doesn't get a chance to build up, because those plants, being rainforest plants, are adapted to soils with very few nutrients and take everything up as fast as they can. And yes, there will be increased leaching in that little area, because there will be more rainfall reaching the forest floor in large bursts, rather than gradually as a result of being delayed by the canopy and all the plants living up there.

Quote
I stopped talking about the 50% thing when I saw too many heads exploding.  We can talk about that again later once you've gotten your heads around "light gaps."

Dave, we understand light gaps as being a standard part of rainforest ecology. They form, there;s a brief flurry of activity around them, and then they close up again. More importantly they're small and widely spaced. Totally unlike your proposals.

Dave, once you've gotten your head around basic rainforest ecology maybe you can start thinking about exactly what effects your idiotic and utterly destructive policy will have on animals and plants that depend on the canopy and near continuous rainforest cover have. How do you think sloths will be able to get to their communal middens with 330ft gaps between trees? Did you even know sloths have communal middens?
You're full of shit.  I'm tired of arguing with idiots.  Maybe I'll be in the mood another day.  Nothing will be destroyed.  I'm simply going to open up some "light gaps" and feed sheep and goats therein.  The end.
Light gaps are where a tree falls. You are going to feed sheep and goats in light gaps? It's fortunate that you actually aren't going to do this.
Light gaps inform us what will happen when we create small clearings in rainforest. And as I expected, good things happen in terms of forage growth which is undoubtedly suitable for sheep and goats, judging by the reported increase in these areas in herbivore and predator population.
7
Politics and Current Events / Re: Facebook
Last post by Patronus Potter -
Facebook neighborhood groups are amazing.


They forgot "The Snitch"
8
Politics and Current Events / Re: Facebook
Last post by SkepticTank -
I signed up for NextDoor a year ago or so, but that's been pretty drama free.  My neighborhood's FB groups are hilarious.  Someone created a  "You can't say that in [neighborhood[" group because of the drama and admin actions in the original group.

My neighborhood is actually it's own city, and some crazy lady ran for city council (and lost) and she's become complete unhinged lately.
9
That's okay that you don't get it. I will be demonstrating the concept with my own piece of land. If it goes well and other land owners are interested in helping me solve this problem, then I would probably form some sort of a land trust which operates on these principles.
So hand over all but three acres of your land to people who can make good use of it. Maybe even grow all or almost all their food.
you're not very good at math are you? How many people are in my family right now? I think you know the answer. It's 3. Do you know what 8 Acres divided by 3 is?
Six biological children, one adopted child, Mother, Father one ex wife, and himself.  Even counting the females as half a person, and not counting the wife as family, how does the math work here? 
Was there a winnowing of the brood? 
What was the selection criteria? 
Will there be another round? 
Will there be a prize for the last family member?

ETA: could the females have been assessed a negative value?
Most of my kids have moved out, but they're still family.
10
Politics and Current Events / Re: Facebook
Last post by ravenscape -
NextDoor is a major thing in my area. And the threads and comments are enough to make me want to move far, far away from the rest of humanity.