We don't need to fix gerrymandering.End representative democracy, allow people to vote on issues directly, death to politicians who only serve the interest of the capitalist dogs.
Quote from: Valor on October 03, 2017, 10:33:03 AMWe don't need to fix gerrymandering.End representative democracy, allow people to vote on issues directly, death to politicians who only serve the interest of the capitalist dogs.I worked out a whole system to do this with Local, Regional, Statewide, and Federal ways to propose bills and laws for direct online voting but it depends heavily on everyone having access to the internet and not being a total dipshit.Since we elected both Bush Jr, and Trump, I think we fail the last part. Also Christian Conservatives have now been in control of a lot of school boards since the 1980's so dipshittedness is on the rise.Anyway, you cant get there from here. Nothing will change till you affect the current power system, and the only way right now to even start that is stop political Gerrymandering. After you do that, then you can start electing people who can change campaign finance laws, which is step 2. You also need to make sure that voting machines are required to create a paper trail for auditing, for now. These are three little things that both left and right can agree on, and will have a major effect on the power structure over time.
opps accidently posted here. sorry. no coffee yet and MR is down !
ftr, i wasn't expecting you to have a magic correct answer solution, i just wanted to know what you think is worthwhile. i get the impression that you don't think working in the DSA is (or maybe that's just the way it is right now), so i was curious. nothing i was saying was intended to be some kind of "well what are you doing about it, tough guy??" challenge. i probably got a little defensive and so some of that seeped through, but i don't pretend to have the answer either. i'm just doing what i can with what looks like the most vital socialist org right now.with that in mind, it's a fair criticism that we don't have a well developed line on how to achieve socialism, or even one set view on what that would look like. it will depend largely on who you talk to because the organization is multi-tendency, but that itself represents a long term lack of a long-term plan everyone can work on. it's something i have been concerned about for a while, but have been too busy organizing/mobilizing (our chapter is v. new) to make time for. (and again, any statements about "too busy doing stuff irl to theory" aren't really meant to be a slight.) up to now all i have been trying to establish is that "social democrats who don't get the need to be rid of capitalism" isn't a correct characterization in my view. also we only in the last year shed that so maybe i'll ask for a bit of a grace period before we can develop something more refined than "actually anti-capitalism is good, and settling for patchwork reforms is not."so some things i think we're doing that is worthwhile even without a well developed coherent line, by which i mean laying the groundwork:1) normalizing socialism-as-anticapitalism. we're in a weird spot because bernie's made it easier to introduce yourself as a "democratic socialist" so that gets a foot in the door, but to avoid being some kind of entryist cult, it's necessary to very quickly emphasize that no, we're not berniecrats and do actually want to get rid of capitalism. normalizing that is important imv basically for the sake of recruitment.2) emphasizing non-electoral politics. the point to us isn't just to run candidates, it's to develop the political power necessary to pressure whatever system exists to behave the way we want it to behave. i recognize a danger here of working for specific reforms and then losing momentum if we get them, but making the exercise of political power a part of a lifestyle is what i am hoping will get around that. i don't want the recent swell of political action by vaguely left-progressive-liberal people to subside just because republicans lose elections and so making politics about something other than elections matters to me. (this is where i am going to finally come around to questioning the use of the word "party" to describe us because we are emphatically not a political party. i haven't said anything about it until now because you seemed to be using it generically to mean any kind of political organization, but when it comes to an orientation towards electoral politics, the distinction matters. the local SPUSA people are very interested in running candidates for office, and they are explicitly a political party by contrast. some DSA chapters are in some places, others just want to endorse if it seems like there is a promising candidate. our chapter is really far to the non-electoral end of the scale.)3) related to the above, creating an alternative political culture. a lot of our effort goes into making the org the heart of a community that is worth being a part of in and of itself. i think that if we can get a lot of people to just want to keep doing politics with other like-minded people because it's personally and emotionally rewarding and you come to think of them as more than just protest pals, or iow to build camaraderie, then you've got a good basis for an organization that grows and withstands just winning a few electoral gains.none of this is anything i think is sufficient to overthrow capitalism or whatever, but i don't know how i'd do it without stuff like this as preliminary steps. there are a whole lot of challenges to doing any of this effectively. for one thing, we all freely recognize that the org skews white and middle class. we don't want this to be a permanent state of affairs and partly as a corrective to getting into any of the kind of bullshit that groups of politically active white people tend to fall into, my chapter is emphasizing both support for organized labor and immigrant rights as critical projects. i recognize that this makes us currently ill-suited to be the beginning of "the working class as a class for itself" but i at least hope to be useful to that process. (semi-related side note, have you read "anatomy of the micro-sect"?)also fwiw i'm not trying to recruit you to anything, but i do know there are a number of DSA people who've been trying to get a communist caucus going so i mean maybe they'd be fun to hang out with i dunno.
Issue 1. Gerrymandering. No one is getting anywhere till that is fixed.
So you have no idea how a communist revolution could come about
and don't care to push things in a more generally leftist direction.
A communist revolution comes about when the working class, through class struggle and revolution, puts and negates property and so capitalism.
I wouldn't oppose socdem reforms.
Quote from: rednoiseA communist revolution comes about when the working class, through class struggle and revolution, puts and negates property and so capitalism. You're ignoring my point. What are the chances of that happening?
Quote from: rednoise I wouldn't oppose socdem reforms.But you don't seem to really care. To the point where you dismiss fixing the problem of gerrymandering, which disenfranchises racial minorities, among others.