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  • I think as part of the "reboot" this place's name should be changed to "Talk and Talk and Talk and Talk More or Less Rationally".

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Messages - Fenrir

"Sloth dung of unit a was deposited between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago at a rate of approximately blah blah blah".

Not quite.

Yes quite.  Here's the exact quote ...
Sloth dung of unit A was c.eposited between 13,000 and 11,000
yr ago at a rate of approximately 0.03 cu m (1 cu ft)/yr.
  The only part I misquoted was the blah blah blah"

What do you think you gain from transparently and obviously ignoring my point?
"Sloth dung of unit a was deposited between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago at a rate of approximately blah blah blah".

Not quite.

More like "Sloth dung of unit a was dated to between 13 000 and 11 000 years ago using standard carbon dating techniques as documented in the supplied reference and if you have a problem with that then go and argue with them".

Your argument is not that they used carbon dating. Your argument is that carbon dating is innapropriate or that the carbon dating methodology used has flaws which render it innapropriate.

You have made a claim. Now it is your job to support either or both of those claims. A job which lies entirely before you, as none of your input so far is other than vapid cheerleading.

Either you present rational argument that carbon dating does not work, you present rational argument that carbon dating works when assessed with a different methodology or alternate validated calibration curve, or you admit you have nothing but vapid cheerleading.

We all know you will jump for option 3 but omit the honest admitting bit.

As a sidenote: People must have noticed that I support what I post with reference link and copy and paste. It is uncommon for others here to do that.

As a sidesidenote: That is transparent bullshit.

You occasionally provide link and copypasta. Said links and copypasta rarely support your rectal extractions.
Science / Re: Direct Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
...There is no way you could possibly be that ignorant about basic physics.

Wanna bet?
The idea that some long-extinct species might have periodically - as opposed to continuously - visited / shat in this cave is a "huge problem", but the idea that the original Arkonaut progenitor of sloth-kind couple somehow got from Ararat to Rampart Cave within a year or two of "The Flood" and proceeded to shit out the entire Unit C of dung within a decade - No Problem At All!

And all whilst eating plants that had already recovered from a year's inundation under a significant depth of muddy brackish water and revegetated large areas so as to provide a landscape with sufficient cover to provide adequate fodder to support very large vegetarian animals of at least several types.

Fortunately those plants did not first have to speciate, having avoided a disastrous genetic bottleneck by the simple trick of being almost completely ignored by the authors of the bible, apart from a solitary olive which was miraculously transported to the top of the enormous mud pile, mature and thriving and ready to be plucked as a convenient plot device.

Did Shasta Ground Sloths eat olives?
So you are clearly quite confused.  But that's ok because you're funny and you make me think of Dr. Seuss.

You are quite clearly an imbecile.

There are significant quantities of data supporting the uniformity of physical constants. Significant quantities of data you have had your nose rubbed in on numerous previous occasions.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Pointless distraction from addressing any substantive point is transparent and, at this point, pathetic.
Say something about how you produce the rotating magnetic field?

You use a fan and glue magnets on it.

I used a 80mm computer fan for mine and glued two neodidlium magnets on it, on opposite sides of the hub.

If you have an old hard drive you can use the magnets out of that.
Dave: do you understand that "no Global Flood" is NOT an assumption of radiometric dating?

yes [ ]
no [ ]

And do you understand that "constant atmospheric C14:C12 ratios over the last 50,000 years" is NOT an assumption of radiometric dating?

yes [ ]
no [ ]

If yes to both the above, lets get on and test Brown's model.

If no, then we can try to explain.
No and yes

Ah. Now I see why David badgered to a convenient diversionary thread.

Gettin a bit close to scary country.
7) Carbon 14 dating ignores is independent of theories of unevidenced speculations positing catastrophic global resurfacing events within the past 10,000 years.

Factual or not ( largely not by my call, handwavy speculation is closer to the mark), your post is utterly irrelevant as to whether Brown has a model which is plausible even under his own highly speculative and biased scenario.
Yep, or a minor remix.

Was worried about the knob on top thing but it takes a schott bottle nicely.
But you will be scratching afterwards.

That taint lingers for ages.


Abs is Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, as everyone should know.

Tis a common thermoplastic polymer, what lots of things is made of and works reasonably well in 3d printers.

Your biro is prolly made of it.

Mine looks much the same as yours Martin, ceptin the knob is on the top not on the side. It's a thingiverse download.
Me folk wonders: If we put pterosaurs in an analysis with birds, using a bird as an outgroup, would that show that pterosaurs evolved form birds? And if we added more birds, would that show even more that pterosaurs evolved form birds?

What does Dr. Pterosaur think?

Dr. Pterosaur doesn't do "think".

Thinking is for lesser mortals.

Dr. Pterosaur does "pontificate from a position of ignorant ineptitude".
Hey  :whyyou:  I just just maded a 12 volt one. Printed case and a 80mm computer fan and a pot. Uses any 12v wall wart.

Not using it though. Want it running 24/7 to stir my spirulina culture and don't trust it unsupervised. Gonna have to do another with proper protection on the power supply.

Mines better coz i used glow-in-the-dark abs.  :cheer:

ETA: "flea" refers to the little stir bars.
Wait I just found a goat that can grow heavier than a Shasta sloth - the Takin, a caprine which is still being argued about regarding its goatishness to sheepishness. It can get up to 300 kg.

Good luck with the tiny goatmatractor what for dragging that around your depauperate recently sown ex-cultivation with a great view of the woods.
Ain't science amazing! Modern small tree-dwelling sloths under predation pressure shit 1/3 of their weight. Therefore huge extinct ground sloths did exactly the same thing! Winning!

Cutting edge Hawkins science. Maybe David could present at the next National Village Idiot Convention.
RAFH, they had to get from Ararat to SA first.
Well, yes. That's my point. They had to get to SA first and then get to NA. Per the myth, a path from Ararat through NA then to SA would make more sense. The sloth exodus could have made it up through Asia and across Beringia to NA much more easily than across Africa and then across the South Atlantic or the other way around, through India and Australia and across the South Pacific.

Not a problem in DaveBrownTopia. You see SA was adjacent to da glorious holy land at the time. As was NA, europe, africa, oz, greenland, asia, etc.

Sure it was a bit crowded and some continents had to stack to fit, but once all the animals were settled in (and had bred enough to disperse to all the landmasses their kind was rostered for) and the jet-propelled hydroplating began things got much better.

That's why most animals have claws btw, so as they could hold on during the ride.
I wonder if the locals have tried ancient ground sloth poo on their gardens. There seems to be stacks of it lying around.

Maybe not. Persons unknown torched Rampart Cave in 1975. Apparently it took quite some time to burn.

Cue David:

"Billions of dead shits, all over the world, in caves"

... We were in more danger climbing up the side of the local waterfall than we were from the fauna.
I recall being shown some pretty vicious flora, as well, on my trip to Down Under a few years back.
Wait-a-while vines*, perchance?

*Calamus species

A lot of the dry country stuff is generally prickly too, but only in one direction, so you can usually brush it out of the way without being scratched if you brush the right way. Sort of like cats. :)

True story, Dendrocnide excelsa specimens collected by Banks will still bite you if you touch them.

Bites from live fresh ones can be felt for 10 years plus. Personal experience tells me that.
(Something like 3 - 4 poop balls per year is what you need to make your theory work.)
You should read other people's posts now and then.
You need the entire 60 cubic meters of sloth dung in Zone C to be produced by the original Arkonaut sloth couple within 8 years of The Flood to make YOUR theory work. 

I believe that calls for a 'lol' or 20.

Those poor Pack Rats.

Won't someone think of the rats?

How much poo and urine would they need to produce per day to make their layer?
Are you a liar, dave? Or just a mindless cheerleader?
He's multitasking!

He's focusing on the big picture and being creative.

Thus leaving the mindless scut work for the helpmates.

Coz he's a manly man.

With very very small balls. A sheep in sheep's clothing as it were.
Maybe Rampart Cave was the sloths vacation home ... lol

FFS read the paper.

Or tell us what the davination of "periodic occupancy" is.

Not to mention the pollen data from the very paper you obviously haven't read.
Quote from: Dave Hawkins on Today at 04:02:39 AM

    for example, you could do a calculation on the sloth dung layers between what appears to be about 62 cm and 68 cm ... carbon 14 dates of 13,140 and 12,440 which spans 700 years.  How many pellets is this?  Oh I dunno but if we take each pellet (ok, dung ball) to be 0.001 cu. m. in volume and we use perhaps 20% of the total 220 sq m as the surface area then we've got # of dung balls = Total volume / volume of each dung ball = 22 x 0.06 / 0.001 = 1320 dung balls over 700 years = 1.88 dung balls per year ... LOL

    Illustrating Brown's point perfectly.

Dave, all that is IRRELEVANT given the DATA in the PAPER showing that the sloth dung was pooped at widely varying TIMES.  By different populations of sloths, eating different food stuffs, and separated by enough time to allow WOODRATS to poop vast quantities of rat pellets on top of the earlier layers.
Haha ... trap sprung.  I purposely picked a continuous layer of sloth dung with NO intervening layers of wood rat dung.

But of course you didn't read what I wrote carefully.


OK,  fair enough.

I agree it is irritating when people don't read things carefully.

So what makes you think, given EVIDENCE that sloth use of the cave to poop in was PERIODIC, that that use was not also PERIODIC during the layer you are referring to?

Periodic alright ... yeah ... 3.76 dung balls PER YEAR is VERY periodic!!


And very imaginary.