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Messages - Testy Calibrate

1
So, who.are McMaster and Kelly as people? I'm a little bit worried that generls are running the white house now.
Kelly was leading the CBP and ice charge before becoming chief of staff. He's a garbage person.
Well sure. But I guess that there have been lots of garbage types in politics over the years. The bar may have been raised too high by the current shit show but I guess I wondered how authoritarian they are from a Nazi perspective.
2
http://theantimedia.org/black-farmer-response-charlottesville-exposes-larger-problem/
And? Does any of that absolve violent white nationalists of their behaviour, or absolve Trump of his idiotic equivocation of "many sides" and "fine people"?

Fine people who, it needs to be noted, we're marching with a group of people carrying swastikas and chanting white supremacist slogans
3
http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2017/08/17/flight-103-presidency/

I'm still a little surprised to occasionally read redstate.com and nod my head in agreement.
Wow.
4
So, who.are McMaster and Kelly as people? I'm a little bit worried that generls are running the white house now.
5
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
Bannon is gone.
Feels like the first good news in a while.

Don't be too quick to see it that way. Trump may have used the shock troops of Breitbart to get himself into power, but now he's there he's been moving closer and closer to a military power base. That's not a good thing.
I'm thinking the military men are more stable and grounded than Trump and the Clown Show, although outliers like Flynn are a good counter-point (but they tend to be openly stupid in their actions).

Pence and Co. may be maneuvering with the military clique to consider an Article 25 threat against Trump and force a resignation, especially if Mueller starts charging people in the Trump circle.

Out of all of this crap, 2018 mid-terms may become the loudest counter-revolutionary vote yet seen in this country.
this doesn't mesh with my experience of military brass.
6
Lol. No. We went to the same art classes. He's older than me. He was pretty much ridiculed at the time for his work although it was pretty good even then. I think the wheelchair was more of a stigma then though and I think that had a lot to do with the criticism he got at the time. It's been something like 35 or 40 years since I've seen him. He seemed like a very weird dude.
7
I know Chuck Close. Hmm.
10
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
what gets me is that people are just now figuring out that trump is a fucking nazi.
11
It's pretty good for sure
12
:colbert:

I can grow exactly what he is showing there, but very little else its true.

Of course, better that than bald :)
Hey motherfucker
13
Okay. Is anybody doing anything other than this though? I mean, I think we all agree with their goal of opposing fascists, right? If there are "members who are anarchists" who have goals like overthrowing the government or causing general chaos (and is there any evidence that there are? is there any evidence that there's a significant faction with those goals?), I think we are probably all (or at least mostly all) opposed to those goals. I'm really not seeing any indication that it's something worth worrying about right now though.

so i am going to let on a little bit about why i call bullshit on ty's facile dire warnings about the anarch menace. in my irl political activism i know and work with people who are self-described anarchists. committed anarchists do not have "causing general chaos" as a goal, and although by definition they believe in getting rid of all governments, there is a variety of ideas about how to do this. generally speaking they believe in local actions to hold power-holders accountable while building up community organizations that are owned and operated in common. to the extent that they seek broad systemic change, they are not particularly different from other radical socialist tendencies. i can see why the people would disagree with their ideal (as i said, i don't really think it's plausible) but i find the reflexive horror at the prospect of anarchism as an existing ideology people believe in to be bizarre and indicative of, well, a fox news level understanding of the idea, which is then fed through some 19th century anthropology shit about "civilization" as a meaningful or interesting concept that represents something valuable.
Just as a quick followup to this: the reason I don't identify as an anarchist is...have you ever attempted consensus driven management? UGH FUCKING HIPPIES
There definitely is an advantage to having referees.
14
Antifa as a movement (the group, not the term) contains a good number of anarchists.  Do people genuinely not care about this?
No masters.
15
Okay, so I have known a few anarchists who have been more violent/destructive. For example, a guy who used to be peripherally involved in a group I worked with about a decade ago (i.e. he was dating one of my friends) had gone to jail for a while for setting fire to a construction site he felt violated public lands or something like that. That sort of dumb shit does exist among a very select corner of the left. That said, it's mostly conceived of as property damage, but there is some overlap into intimidation as well as actually putting people at risk (as arson does, in that case).

However, the most property damage that most anarchists I've known want to commit is burning a fat J and knocking down a whole pizza.
Lol. This made me remember that a guy I encounter through work frequently did a few years in prison for arson related to an environmental group. He's one of my favorite people actually. Then again, he's already paid his debt and is now working essentially in government. He's also pretty much a genius so maybe that matters. Dunno. Bili put it right for me. No masters. If you can't get my cooperation, you have to deal with my opposition. Fear of penalty just doesn't motivate me deeply.
16
Okay. Is anybody doing anything other than this though? I mean, I think we all agree with their goal of opposing fascists, right? If there are "members who are anarchists" who have goals like overthrowing the government or causing general chaos (and is there any evidence that there are? is there any evidence that there's a significant faction with those goals?), I think we are probably all (or at least mostly all) opposed to those goals. I'm really not seeing any indication that it's something worth worrying about right now though.

so i am going to let on a little bit about why i call bullshit on ty's facile dire warnings about the anarch menace. in my irl political activism i know and work with people who are self-described anarchists. committed anarchists do not have "causing general chaos" as a goal, and although by definition they believe in getting rid of all governments, there is a variety of ideas about how to do this. generally speaking they believe in local actions to hold power-holders accountable while building up community organizations that are owned and operated in common. to the extent that they seek broad systemic change, they are not particularly different from other radical socialist tendencies. i can see why the people would disagree with their ideal (as i said, i don't really think it's plausible) but i find the reflexive horror at the prospect of anarchism as an existing ideology people believe in to be bizarre and indicative of, well, a fox news level understanding of the idea, which is then fed through some 19th century anthropology shit about "civilization" as a meaningful or interesting concept that represents something valuable.
Yeah, pretty much this. I've known quite a few people who consider themselves anarchists and I've never once thought to myself that.they represented something dangerous. In fact, on most issues, I am in their camp (or.vice versa really). I think ty sees a radicalized college student breaking a.store window and gets vapors.
17
I know that when I post in these threads, I am swimming upstream and opening myself up to ridicule.  But honest to god, so many of you are just phoning it in nowadays.
honest to god, hating on antifa is about the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread.

It is perfectly sensible to be wary of groups that have members who are anarchists, etc.  Any normal person who is not brainwashed by dumb internet leftism can recognize this.  It is also perfectly sensible to appreciate what they are doing (fighting actual white supremacists) while not agreeing with any of their other political philosophies, or while being wary of thier larger goals as a group.

Really, this is all uncontroversial.  Some of you have just lost your fucking minds, which makes it seem crazy. But trust me: you're wrong.

ETA:

Quote
How in shit did you end up marrying a girl who's read more than one book?

Two things about this:

1) Comments like these tip your hand
2) This comment is fairly silly, insofar as you demonstrate absolutely zero historical awareness with what happens when politically focused militias decide to start airing their grievances in public, with fists.  There's usually no good guys left by the time this happens.
Tip my hand? Dude, I had 4 aces showing. Second, when fascists start marching in the.street, it's a little late for hand wringing.
18
As an example, look at what a relatively small number of marginalized Nazi morons has been able to do.
Thing is, it's becoming quite clear that the nazis we thought were marginalized aren't nearly as marginalized as we thought they were. Therefore, punches in nazi faces are needed to put them back into their closet.
From what I'm reading, they managed 500 or so white nationalists at Charlottesville. That still pretty marginalized.
From what I'm reading, they got a president elected.
20
Quote
Antifa just means anti fascist, a group to which nearly all people who are aware of what fascism means and aren't fascists belong.
Come the fuck on, Testy.

That literally is what antifa is you dummy. Generally what antifa does is serves as a buffer between nonviolent protesters and nazis. This protects people, such as elderly holocaust survivors, from being the front lines when fascist shitbags start pushing and punching.

If there weren't fascist marches, there would not be anti-fascists. Antifa doesn't give a shit about people being shitty in their parents' basements. They literally only exist to serve as a buffer between nonviolent protesters and armed brownshirts.
http://rosecityantifa.org/
21
Quote
Antifa just means anti fascist, a group to which nearly all people who are aware of what fascism means and aren't fascists belong.
Come the fuck on, Testy.
no u come the fuck on coolio.
22
loving Ty's descent into the pit of bothsidesism
I think he hasn't really thought it through. My brother in law was in the air force and has a lot of the same attitudes which basically boil down to a disdain for groups that don't have a defined leadership with which to negotiate/battle/capitulate.

Sounds almost like authoritarianism :ohmy:
I have been told that I have a relatively anti-authoritarian streak so I dunno. It's definitely foreign to me.
23
loving Ty's descent into the pit of bothsidesism
I think he hasn't really thought it through. My brother in law was in the air force and has a lot of the same attitudes which basically boil down to a disdain for groups that don't have a defined leadership with which to negotiate/battle/capitulate. But I dunno. Hey Ty, is BLM a hate group? there are some people who've committed violence in their name.
24
I know that when I post in these threads, I am swimming upstream and opening myself up to ridicule.  But honest to god, so many of you are just phoning it in nowadays.
honest to god, hating on antifa is about the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread. It's like saying BLM is a racist hate group. You are painting with a brush broad enough to have the word 'stupid' printed across the handle in comic sans 200 pt bold with a few lols at the end. Antifa just means anti fascist, a group to which nearly all people who are aware of what fascism means and aren't fascists belong. However, a group of white supremacists are indeed united by a common theme which isn't at its core a morally good position unlike being anti fascist. How in shit did you end up marrying a girl who's read more than one book?
25
Like so many movements on the left, anarchism is a playground for dumb kids and most people grow out of it.
So we're supposed to care about them why again?

Because most is not all, genius.

As an example, look at what a relatively small number of marginalized Nazi morons has been able to do.
As an example, look what a relatively small number of gamers have been able to do with a gate.