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Topic: obamacare repeal effort thread (Read 13816 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #575

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #576
Oh good. :popcorn:
Truth is out of style

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #577
I believe that's the second failed revival, or third overall push for the repeal of obamacare.  the world's greatest negotiator cannot reach a deal with his own party, to execute on their biggest goal of the last 7 years.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #578
Yes I've been enjoying it too. ;)
Truth is out of style

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #579
Yes I've been enjoying it too. ;)
What Trump didn't count on was the incredible negotiating powers of Republican lawmakers.
Are we there yet?

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #580
 :911:
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #582



lmao how are they so bad at this

House GOP has no idea how to actually govern the country

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #583
They moved to the idiot end of the spectrum to differentiate themselves and are now stuck there?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #584
years of thinking in slogans has atrophied whatever brains they had

  • Faid
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #585
Yes I've been enjoying it too. ;)
What Trump didn't count on was the incredible negotiating powers of Republican lawmakers.
"This is the deal, take it or leave it".
"Nope"
"You BETTER vote for it- Or ELSE!!!"
"Nope"
"OK fine, I'll let you vote for it tomorrow."
"Nope"
"You know what? FINE! I'll just leave Obamacare in place and wait for it to explode, see if I care!"
"Whatever"
"...OK I'll come clean with you. I can't just leave Obamacare in place and wait for it to explode."
"Uh-huh."
"So here's a NEW deal. Vote for it!"
"...This deal promises different things to different groups."
"...Oh. You noticed?"
"Yup."
"OK whatever, just vote for it!"
"Nope"
"VOTE FOR IT!"
"Nope"
"...Look, let's compromise. If I offer you the deal tomorrow, will you vote for it?"
"Nope"
"AAAAAAARRRRRGH!!!11"




Art of the Deal, people.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #586
so trump made an apparent threat to use his power to destabilize the insurance markets, in order to leverage the democrats into negotiating with him on an aca replacement. http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/328693-dem-accuses-trump-of-political-blackmail

however, the democrats can probably gamble that he wouldn't follow through on the threat, because it would be a political disaster for which trump himself would probably get most/all the blame.  nonetheless, they are wisely not taking all that for granted, and are threatening to allow a government shutdown if cost-sharing payments (which are important to the stability of the markets) aren't guaranteed for the year by the spending bill.  http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/328755-dems-link-obamacare-payments-to-shutdown-fight

and for now at least, the trump administration is in fact taking steps that further stabilize the markets.   http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/328751-trump-administration-moves-to-stabilize-obamacare-markets

  • RAFH
  • Have a life, already.
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #587
Plus the interest is supposed to build the fund and safeguard against inflation.

Can we bring charges of mismanagement against the lot of them?

One has to remember that at the time the Federal Government had little to no ways to raise funds for the coming war. And make no mistake, it was clear a war like nothing previous was coming. WW1 was just practice, and for the most part contained to Europe.

SS was simply a reasonable way to raise the funds and to have a personal bank to borrow from. After all, many of the banks were supporting the Nazi's. At least initially. We should have nationalized them and executed their upper level officers for treason and crimes against humanity. At least if we weren't chickenshit.

But ... the banks won.
Are we there yet?

  • Bilirubin
  • Ain't nothing ta fuck wit'

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #589
lmao they're really going to try to ram this through to give Trump a "win" by Day 100


  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #590
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/329662-moderate-conservative-gop-leaders-say-they-are-nearing-healthcare-deal

negotiators from tuesday group and freedom caucus are saying they're close to a deal, but it seems to involve the same ideas as an earlier iteration, which drove away moderates and failed.  they're talking about doing state-by-state waivers, with high-risk pools as an alternative to guaranteed issue.  also, they are (so far) keeping the deep medicaid cuts. 

it's not clear to me where they are claiming to have made progress.  this is the same package that gives the FC most of what they want, which still wasn't good enough for them last time, and which btw the TG moderates can't vote for either.

eta:  if and when this effort collapses, look for republicans to say let's just move on now, and not waste any more time on a bill that can't pass.  it'll be like an irritated shout down if someone suggests reviving it again:  "no!  we're not bringing it back!  we're going to try to at least get a tax cut or something while we still have time."
  • Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:10:34 AM by el jefe

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #591
btw, if this collapses, I expect some frustrated republican to explain their repeated failure by saying obama put good policy in the aca as a trick to make it harder to repeal.  after they realize they've messed up and conservatives blow up at them on twitter, we'll get a panicked retraction, saying every word of obamacare is literally murdering the world poo poo pee pee. 

guapo's odds: 65%

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #592
already some house republicans are talking down the claims of an imminent deal or even progress.  the moderates read my post and are saying they are not sure what has changed since the last proposal which wasn't acceptable.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/329783-obamacare-repeal-deal-hits-major-speed-bumps

  • MikeS
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #593
Well that only took a little over 2 and a half hours to reverse course.   :911:

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #594
For example, one of the comments says that Medicare and Social Security are two of the biggest deficit drivers.  Well, genius, Medicare, according to the Trustees report, only contributed $3.2 billion to the deficit with total income for 2015 of $644.4 billion and total expenses for 2015 of $647.6 billion.

Meanwhile over in the Social Security Trustee's report the OASDI funds (Social Security and Disability) are still in the black by $25 billion with income of $884.3 billion and expenses of $859.2 billion.

Taken together OASDI and Medicare actually reduce the deficit by around $21 billion.

I probably should never have looked at those reports because the Trustees report what tax rate would be needed to correct any long term imbalances.  To make Medicare stable for the next 75 years would mean increasing Medicare payroll taxes by 0.73 percentage points.  Currently Medicare payroll taxes are 2.90% (1.45% paid by the employee and 1.45% paid by the employer).  To "fix" Medicare would require that percentage to to to 3.63% (1.815% for the employee and 1.815% for the employer).

To "fix" Social Security fro the next 75 years would mean upping the current OASDI tax from 12.40% (6.2% for employee and 6.2% for employer) to 15.02% (7.51% for employee and 7.51% for employer).  I think that's also assuming the current $127,200 salary base limit.

So all this arguing and wringing of hands and complaining and fearing the destruction of the United States is over a measly 3.35% increase in payroll taxes split 50/50 between the employee and employer (1.675% each).
SAD!
Would eliminating the SS cap, applied evenly to employer and employee like it is now, fix that altogether?

  • SkepticTank
  • Global Moderator
  • Calmer than you are
Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #595
Would eliminating the SS cap, applied evenly to employer and employee like it is now, fix that altogether?
Or how about raising the retirement age by say 5 years over the next 30-50 years? 

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #596
No, that would be awful and would punish non-rich workers and especially manual labor workers whose bodies are already trashed by the time they hit 65 or 67, let alone 72. When "tax the rich a tiny bit more" is an option that solves your problems, that's the one you go with.

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #597
For example, one of the comments says that Medicare and Social Security are two of the biggest deficit drivers.  Well, genius, Medicare, according to the Trustees report, only contributed $3.2 billion to the deficit with total income for 2015 of $644.4 billion and total expenses for 2015 of $647.6 billion.

Meanwhile over in the Social Security Trustee's report the OASDI funds (Social Security and Disability) are still in the black by $25 billion with income of $884.3 billion and expenses of $859.2 billion.

Taken together OASDI and Medicare actually reduce the deficit by around $21 billion.

I probably should never have looked at those reports because the Trustees report what tax rate would be needed to correct any long term imbalances.  To make Medicare stable for the next 75 years would mean increasing Medicare payroll taxes by 0.73 percentage points.  Currently Medicare payroll taxes are 2.90% (1.45% paid by the employee and 1.45% paid by the employer).  To "fix" Medicare would require that percentage to to to 3.63% (1.815% for the employee and 1.815% for the employer).

To "fix" Social Security fro the next 75 years would mean upping the current OASDI tax from 12.40% (6.2% for employee and 6.2% for employer) to 15.02% (7.51% for employee and 7.51% for employer).  I think that's also assuming the current $127,200 salary base limit.

So all this arguing and wringing of hands and complaining and fearing the destruction of the United States is over a measly 3.35% increase in payroll taxes split 50/50 between the employee and employer (1.675% each).
SAD!
Would eliminating the SS cap, applied evenly to employer and employee like it is now, fix that altogether?

It would completely close the gap and even allow for benefits increases.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/what-impact-would-eliminating/

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #598

Re: obamacare repeal effort thread
Reply #599
They're pushing for this hard again for some inexplicable reason, and the HFC is saying they're (largely) on-board, which means this bill literally kills enough people to make them happy. Tuesday Group already giving it the  :staregonk: though.