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Topic: Making the war in Afghanistan Great Again. (Read 346 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • SkepticTank
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Making the war in Afghanistan Great Again.
  • Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 10:31:05 AM by SkepticTank

  • clete
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Re: Making the war in Afghanistan Great Again.
Reply #1
The cheering going on at Breitbart right now is really disgusting.

  • el jefe
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Reply #2
one thing neocons and alt-right can agree on is the muslims have got to go

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Reply #3
Watching CNN, and most of the talking heads seem to be generally supportive of its use in this particular case (cave system in a remote region with minimal collateral damage)

  • el jefe
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Reply #4
huh, I thought we'd used it before, but wikipedia ' s operational history for it says this is believed to be the first time

anyway, this seems very trumpian in several ways.  grandiose.  the biggest and best boom boom.  also, he may have felt a bit impotent after 59 cruise missiles didn't do a ton of damage to that syrian airbase (so little, the syrians were using it again a few hours later), so he told his people he wanted more firepower this time.  lastly, this seems to be retributive, for the death of a special forces guy last week. and retribution is trump's middle name.  eta: yes, it's what the j stands for.

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Reply #5
anyway, this seems very trumpian in several ways.  ...
including the color of the damn thing!

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Reply #6
It looks like a cartoon bomb.

That can't have been on purpose?

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Reply #7
Only a 21,000 lb bomb?
The RAF were dropping 22,000 lb Grand Slam bombs in WW2, which could penetrate 20 ft. of concrete.

MOAB is a thin-skinned air-blast bomb, with no penetration capability, so of very little use against the supposed target of ISIS caves and tunnels.
But it does make a lovely bang!

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Reply #8
No penetration but it's concussive, so it should kill or really hurt all the people in the caves.


Supposedly.

  • el jefe
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Reply #9
Only a 21,000 lb bomb?
The RAF were dropping 22,000 lb Grand Slam bombs in WW2, which could penetrate 20 ft. of concrete.

MOAB is a thin-skinned air-blast bomb, with no penetration capability, so of very little use against the supposed target of ISIS caves and tunnels.
But it does make a lovely bang!
grand slam had slightly higher weight, but only half the blast yield

a lot of research has been done over the years on explosive compounds and the fluid dynamics of the detonation shock wave.  they've really optimized this stuff to get more bang for your pound, so to speak.

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Reply #10
All depends on how deep your caves and tunnels are.
The main reason for deployment is surely PR, rather than strategic?

  • SkepticTank
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Reply #11
That's certainly a large part of it.

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Reply #12
Killed 36 ISIS fighters according to Afghan officials.

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Reply #13
lol

  • tysixtus
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Re: Making the war in Afghanistan Great Again.
Reply #14
Only a 21,000 lb bomb?
The RAF were dropping 22,000 lb Grand Slam bombs in WW2, which could penetrate 20 ft. of concrete.

MOAB is a thin-skinned air-blast bomb, with no penetration capability, so of very little use against the supposed target of ISIS caves and tunnels.
But it does make a lovely bang!

Yes, I'm sure you know more about this than the god knows how many PhDs and engineers who spent years building it.

  • osmanthus
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Reply #15
Killed 36 ISIS fighters according to Afghan officials.
So it only took 600 pounds of explosive to kill each one. Economical. :parrot:
Truth is out of style

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Reply #16
Killed 36 ISIS fighters according to Afghan officials.
So it only took 600 pounds of explosive to kill each one. Economical. :parrot:
And $450,000 per kill!

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Reply #17
Killed 36 ISIS fighters according to Afghan officials.
So it only took 600 pounds of explosive to kill each one. Economical. :parrot:
And $450,000 per kill!

Better than the life of 2-3 special forces guys.   :dealwithit:

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Reply #18
Killed 36 ISIS fighters according to Afghan officials.
So it only took 600 pounds of explosive to kill each one. Economical. :parrot:
And $450,000 per kill!
We could probably have hired some Russian Mafia hitmen to go in and wipe them bastids out. I bet we could have gotten two hitmen for each of the ISIS, just to make sure, plus pay their expenses, and still saved at least half.

Plus, total deniability. We just suggest they were late on their payments or dissed Putin or something like that.
Are we there yet?

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Reply #19
Killed 36 ISIS fighters according to Afghan officials.
So it only took 600 pounds of explosive to kill each one. Economical. :parrot:
And $450,000 per kill!
hey, during the civil war, we were spending 2 men to kill every 1 confederate soldier.  but we could afford to replace our guys, and they couldn't.  and we eventually found a general who could stomach sacrificing hundreds of thousands of men just to kill half as many bad guys.  so it was only a matter of time and political will.

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Reply #20
Why the fuck was the ratio 2:1? That's pretty poor management on someone's part.
Truth is out of style

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Reply #21
the south had better generals

checking the total numbers of combat deaths, it looks like the final kill ratio for the whole war was more like 1.15:1.  but that total includes the final part of the war, when the confederates were poorly supplied and disorganized, and were losing most of the battles.

early in the war, northern generals were afraid to engage Robert E Lee, and for good reason.  when they did, he slaughtered them.

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Reply #22
Lincoln was frustrated because he couldn't find anyone willing to fight Lee.  he went through several generals who just wrung their hands and made excuses to stay north of the Potomac, before he finally discovered Ulysses S Grant, the sternest motherfucker who ever lived.  it is impossible to understate how many fucks Grant gave.  in the pantheon of historical superlatives, he has to go down as "gave fewest fucks".

the guy certainly had his flaws.  when someone expressed concern that Grant drank too much, Lincoln said to find out his brand of whiskey and issue a bottle to all his generals.

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Reply #23
:rofl: Good for Lincoln.
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Reply #24
Sherman was pretty damn ruthless.
Are we there yet?

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Reply #25

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Reply #26
I may be naive on this, but I like to think the primary target was the "infrastructure" - the system of tunnels - and the destruction of that is the more significant result than the body count.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Reply #27
Well that's starting to make economic sense. No problem. :)
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Reply #28
The real target was probably N Korea anyway; ISIS were just a convenient way to make a point.

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Reply #29
Meh. Pretty tenuous. They already have these bombs sitting around. All paid for. No refunds possible. So far they haven't had a suitable target for them. The other day, a suitable target turns up. Might as well drop one of the buggers and sort it out.

I mean it's the fucking war in Afghanistan. It's been going on since the Neolithic and absolute fuckloads of bombs have been dropped. If they dropped ten of the standard 1,000  lb bombs in one day, nobody would give a shit. They drop one 10,000 lb bomb, which they have already paid for anyway so it is a sunk cost regardless of what you do with the bloody thing, and it's supposed to be a huge hairy deal.
Truth is out of style

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Reply #30
Sherman was pretty damn ruthless.
yes, he was.  although, unlike Grant, he was capable of feeling fear.  early in the war, before the country had a sense of how big and long a conflict they were in for, Sherman was freaking out, telling everyone basically "you don't get it", the war was going to last years and cost hundreds of thousands of lives, and the North needed to raise a huge army as soon as possible. the stuff he was saying was considered so ridiculous that he was declared mentally unfit and relieved of command.  iirc, he only got his command back after the intervention of his old friend, Grant, who had since risen through the ranks. in the end, Sherman ' s estimates of casualties and number of men required actually turned out to be low.

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Re: Making the war in Afghanistan Great Again.
Reply #31
Sherman was pretty damn ruthless.
yes, he was.  although, unlike Grant, he was capable of feeling fear.  early in the war, before the country had a sense of how big and long a conflict they were in for, Sherman was freaking out, telling everyone basically "you don't get it", the war was going to last years and cost hundreds of thousands of lives, and the North needed to raise a huge army as soon as possible. the stuff he was saying was considered so ridiculous that he was declared mentally unfit and relieved of command.  iirc, he only got his command back after the intervention of his old friend, Grant, who had since risen through the ranks. in the end, Sherman ' s estimates of casualties and number of men required actually turned out to be low.
Like the man said, "You're not ready for the TRUTH!"
Are we there yet?

  • tysixtus
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Re: Making the war in Afghanistan Great Again.
Reply #32
I may be naive on this, but I like to think the primary target was the "infrastructure" - the system of tunnels - and the destruction of that is the more significant result than the body count.

That's what this bomb was designed to destroy: infrastructure.  Massive bombs like this are not designed or deployed primarily to kill people.  They are too big, and too indiscriminate for that.  It is not like there are massive groups of mujihadeen standing around in formation, ready to get vaporized.

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Reply #33
So you're saying Total War Middle East is unrealistic?