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Topic: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day (Read 1571 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #25
As far as whether the Left is willing to accept and match increased violence, that's another question, and I agree that white college liberals are unlikely to show up with AR-15s in open carry for self-defense.

But there's more to the left and antifa than white college liberals.

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #26
As far as whether the Left is willing to accept and match increased violence, that's another question, and I agree that white college liberals are unlikely to show up with AR-15s in open carry for self-defense.

But there's more to the left and antifa than white college liberals.
Shitposting bootlickers, for example.

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #27
I am just gonna go out on a limb and assume that he fuckers throwing sig heils, wearing swastikas, and calling for ethnic cleansing are probably nazis.

Maybe that's too bold for nuanced thinker "tysixtus"

Hey teeth, what about professors covering objectionable material?  Are they Nazis too?  Should they have their asses kicked?

Think real hard about this. Just for a second.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #28
aww is somebody having a widdle meltdown

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #29
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.

There's absolutely a lack of preparedness right now among the pacifist left for organized violence by pro-fascist goons. But that doesn't extend throughout the left and is not necessarily a permanent feature of left-leaning protest. The main issue IMO is that if a Black Panther like organization, or a similar Hispanic rights group, started showing up armed to protests this might polarize police to intercede on behalf of the fascists.

We don't know how this will all play out but yes it will get worse before it gets better. But that's also what happened in the 60s.

  • linus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #30
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people. The left will show up with Airsoft rifles and face masks, these guys will show up with real rifles and motorcycle armor.  It is only a matter of time before there is an actual fucking gun battle.
OK, I don't really have any idea at what stage it is most strategical to meet violent alt-right protests with violence. So if you think it would still at this point be better if the left's most radical tail retained moral high ground, then fair point.

  • ksen
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #31
the left's

they

their

they

them

they

their

they

:hmm:

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #32
the left's

they

their

they

them

they

their

they

:hmm:

Yes, pronouns are suspicious.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #33
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.
think harder.

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #34
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people. The left will show up with Airsoft rifles and face masks, these guys will show up with real rifles and motorcycle armor.  It is only a matter of time before there is an actual fucking gun battle.
OK, I don't really have any idea at what stage it is most strategical to meet violent alt-right protests with violence. So if you think it would still at this point be better if the left's most radical tail retained moral high ground, then fair point.

Let's be clear: at least in these cases, the violence didn't start with the right.  I mean, there is kind of a chicken-egg situation, at least with regards to what is going on in US right now, but when that dude punched Richard Spencer a few months ago, the prevailing media line was that it was an okay thing. 

  • ksen
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #35
the left's

they

their

they

them

they

their

they

:hmm:

Yes, pronouns are suspicious.
Not in themselves.  But when used like that it's like you are distancing yourself from the Left and now consider them an other that you are not part of.

Maybe you never were part of the Left and I just assumed you were because you hung out here and liked to bang shit around with everyone.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #36
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people. The left will show up with Airsoft rifles and face masks, these guys will show up with real rifles and motorcycle armor.  It is only a matter of time before there is an actual fucking gun battle.
OK, I don't really have any idea at what stage it is most strategical to meet violent alt-right protests with violence. So if you think it would still at this point be better if the left's most radical tail retained moral high ground, then fair point.

Let's be clear: at least in these cases, the violence didn't start with the right.  I mean, there is kind of a chicken-egg situation, at least with regards to what is going on in US right now, but when that dude punched Richard Spencer a few months ago, the prevailing media line was that it was an okay thing. 
it was. and now the right shows up to a protest armed. So easy to troll them with one little punch. A show of force is pretty pointless in a world full of cops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrihKt2PwBI
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #37
the left's

they

their

they

them

they

their

they

:hmm:

Yes, pronouns are suspicious.
Not in themselves.  But when used like that it's like you are distancing yourself from the Left and now consider them an other that you are not part of.

Maybe you never were part of the Left and I just assumed you were because you hung out here and liked to bang shit around with everyone.

Except for my views on class/economics, I am not on the left anymore. This latest nonsense has me convinced that most of the left in this country is made up of childish embarrassments.

ETA: Though you are correct, I used to be.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #38
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people. The left will show up with Airsoft rifles and face masks, these guys will show up with real rifles and motorcycle armor.  It is only a matter of time before there is an actual fucking gun battle.
OK, I don't really have any idea at what stage it is most strategical to meet violent alt-right protests with violence. So if you think it would still at this point be better if the left's most radical tail retained moral high ground, then fair point.
this is a confusing post because i'm not sure how anyone who opposes nazis by any means doesn't have the moral high ground by default.

eta: i guess there could be a question of collateral damage but that's not clearly an issue here.
  • Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 11:10:14 AM by the idea of Harambe

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #39
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people. The left will show up with Airsoft rifles and face masks, these guys will show up with real rifles and motorcycle armor.  It is only a matter of time before there is an actual fucking gun battle.
OK, I don't really have any idea at what stage it is most strategical to meet violent alt-right protests with violence. So if you think it would still at this point be better if the left's most radical tail retained moral high ground, then fair point.

Let's be clear: at least in these cases, the violence didn't start with the right.  I mean, there is kind of a chicken-egg situation, at least with regards to what is going on in US right now, but when that dude punched Richard Spencer a few months ago, the prevailing media line was that it was an okay thing. 
it was. and now the right shows up to a protest armed. So easy to troll them with one little punch. A show of force is pretty pointless in a world full of cops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrihKt2PwBI

What is the logic, here?  This is like me poking a bear, and then the bear mauls me, and I go "HAHA trolled you into mauling me, #bearssofragile!" and then making a Harry Potter reference.  I will leave it to you to see why this is fucking stupid.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #40
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people. The left will show up with Airsoft rifles and face masks, these guys will show up with real rifles and motorcycle armor.  It is only a matter of time before there is an actual fucking gun battle.
OK, I don't really have any idea at what stage it is most strategical to meet violent alt-right protests with violence. So if you think it would still at this point be better if the left's most radical tail retained moral high ground, then fair point.

Let's be clear: at least in these cases, the violence didn't start with the right.  I mean, there is kind of a chicken-egg situation, at least with regards to what is going on in US right now, but when that dude punched Richard Spencer a few months ago, the prevailing media line was that it was an okay thing. 
it was. and now the right shows up to a protest armed. So easy to troll them with one little punch. A show of force is pretty pointless in a world full of cops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrihKt2PwBI

What is the logic, here?  This is like me poking a bear, and then the bear mauls me, and I go "HAHA trolled you into mauling me, #bearssofragile!" and then making a Harry Potter reference.  I will leave it to you to see why this is fucking stupid.
My logic is telling a big dummy that I will fight him if he flies to my city and runs around in public with weapons and breaks the law in front of a bunch of cops.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • ksen
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #41
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #42
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.

  • ksen
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #43
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
Sure, but I was going more by your characterization of the Alt-Right guys when you said they were like a bear being poked.

  • clete
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #44
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
You mean except for the more mainstream right wing people who view them as "free speech advocates" rather than racists.

  • tysixtus
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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #45
No, I don't mean that.  Not sure you mean it either.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #46
back in my day, these protestors would be carried out on stretchers!

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #47
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #48
actually it's about ethics in liberal protesting

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #49
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.

The MSM is scandalized.  I don't think this surprises anyone who lives in the Bay Area.  Nazi/White Supremacist/etc. clashes with antifa have been happening in Sacramento since the KKK rally in Sacramento last summer. And the movement has had a presence in Sacramento for years, including David Lynch and his group,  Long enough that a counter movement shows up where Nazis are expected.  This New Yorker article after the June 2016 riot explored some of the background of two group in California who were instrumental in making that rally/riot happen.  Since the Yayayayawhatever speech that didn't happen, Berkeley has been a hot spot, too.

This will keep happening in Berkeley and Sacramento and probably spread to other cities in CA.  And it will escalate.  I don't see it calming down before the alt right is emphatically repudiated by other strands of American conservatism.  Which isn't going to happen soon.  I can't really see a set of circumstances where neonazi and white identity groups disappear entirely that doesn't involve a Utopian science fiction future.

lagniappe - I missed this story when it happened.  There's an interesting Berkeley connection to the 2016 protest in Sacramento.