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Topic: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day (Read 2754 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #50
I knew you were stupid, Ty. But I would never have taken you for a Nazi sympathizer.

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #51
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.
How you view them and what they are in reality are not the same thing.

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #52
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.
How you view them and what they are in reality are not the same thing.
Um, this looks like the beginning of philosophical suicide as BSB maybe said if I took him off ignore.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #53
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.

The MSM is scandalized.  I don't think this surprises anyone who lives in the Bay Area.

Okay, fair enough.  I don't live there obviously, so I have no idea how they are treated in your neck of the woods.

Quote
I can't really see a set of circumstances where neonazi and white identity groups disappear entirely that doesn't involve a Utopian science fiction future.

I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power.  They are jokes, and I think the old trick of just ridiculing them in public and in intellectual life was way more effective than clashing with them on the street. 


  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #54
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.
How you view them and what they are in reality are not the same thing.
Um, this looks like the beginning of philosophical suicide as BSB maybe said if I took him off ignore.

I trust gunner's ability to determine who is a Nazi, so I'm not disagreeing with him on the Nazi-status of any of these people. They are Nazis (or close enough to it) to warrant opposition.

But they are fringe, a fringe group of idiot lunatics.  That's what I'm disagreeing with him about.

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #55
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.
How you view them and what they are in reality are not the same thing.
Um, this looks like the beginning of philosophical suicide as BSB maybe said if I took him off ignore.

Is Valor BSB?  I need to know, so I know whether or not to tell him to blow me.

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #56
I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power. 

yeah it's not like any of the founding members of Breitbart are setting foot in the White House or anything!

shut the fuck up you massive piece of shit.

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #57
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.
How you view them and what they are in reality are not the same thing.

:ironicat:

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #58
I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power. 

yeah it's not like any of the founding members of Breitbart are setting foot in the White House or anything!

shut the fuck up you massive piece of shit.

Yes, because the real issue is that alcoholic Steve Bannon lasted 3 months in the White House,

ETA: Also, as mad as you are, you might be damina.

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #59
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.

The MSM is scandalized.  I don't think this surprises anyone who lives in the Bay Area.

Okay, fair enough.  I don't live there obviously, so I have no idea how they are treated in your neck of the woods.

Quote
I can't really see a set of circumstances where neonazi and white identity groups disappear entirely that doesn't involve a Utopian science fiction future.

I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power.  They are jokes, and I think the old trick of just ridiculing them in public and in intellectual life was way more effective than clashing with them on the street. 


Not really. In the 80's they were a major presence in the Portland area and it really sucked a lot. It took a coordinated law enforcement and community engaged policy to get them to stop beating on people and robbing them and so on. Lots of them ended up in jail and there are still bars where blacks aren't welcome. Not too far from my house there's a bar called meadows lounge that still has the occasional skinhead meeting.

The issue is violence and what worked here was to aggressively prosecute it. Since they apparently couldn't help themselves, enough ended up in jail and or emigrated to Coos Bay or probably some neighborhoods that I don't know about to start over. Ignoring them doesn't work because they have a message which resonates among disaffected as well as a certain type of overprivileged white youth - probably the kind that thought gamergate mattered in any way whatsoever.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #60
Sometimes Goliath needs standing up to and all you have is a piece of leather and a pebble.

But by everyone's own admission, these guys are not Goliath.  They are fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously.
this is the exact opposite of the truth.

perhaps this is the source of your confusion. so lemme be a pal and help you out: people who are serious about suppressing nazism do not believe we have the luxury of viewing the alt right as a quaint fringe fad.
How you view them and what they are in reality are not the same thing.
that's interesting, but not really relevant to whether "by everyone's own admission, these guys are... fringe-occupying racists that nobody takes seriously."

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #61
I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power. 

yeah it's not like any of the founding members of Breitbart are setting foot in the White House or anything!

shut the fuck up you massive piece of shit.

Yes, because the real issue is that alcoholic Steve Bannon lasted 3 months in the White House,

ETA: Also, as mad as you are, you might be damina.
It kinda matters that he ended up there at all. Jeff Sessions is, um, no angel either.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #62
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.

The MSM is scandalized.  I don't think this surprises anyone who lives in the Bay Area.

Okay, fair enough.  I don't live there obviously, so I have no idea how they are treated in your neck of the woods.

Quote
I can't really see a set of circumstances where neonazi and white identity groups disappear entirely that doesn't involve a Utopian science fiction future.

I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power.  They are jokes, and I think the old trick of just ridiculing them in public and in intellectual life was way more effective than clashing with them on the street. 


Not really. In the 80's they were a major presence in the Portland area and it really sucked a lot. It took a coordinated law enforcement and community engaged policy to get them to stop beating on people and robbing them and so on.

Okay so, sounds we already know how to deal with them. 

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #63

  • ravenscape
  • Administrator
  • Triggered
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #64
Is Valor BSB?  I need to know, so I know whether or not to tell him to blow me.

Nah he's Bart.

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #65
I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power. 

yeah it's not like any of the founding members of Breitbart are setting foot in the White House or anything!

shut the fuck up you massive piece of shit.

Yes, because the real issue is that alcoholic Steve Bannon lasted 3 months in the White House,

ETA: Also, as mad as you are, you might be damina.
It kinda matters that he ended up there at all. Jeff Sessions is, um, no angel either.
But here we are again, you are conflating Jeff Sessions and Steve Bannon -- as odious as they may be -- with Nazis.  Bannon is a shithead, but even the ADL doesn't call him a Nazi. Do you see the problem here?  I feel like many of you have lost all sense of proportion.
  • Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 12:00:01 PM by tysixtus

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #66
Is Valor BSB?  I need to know, so I know whether or not to tell him to blow me.

Nah he's Bart.
no im bart

  • ravenscape
  • Administrator
  • Triggered
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #67
I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power. 

yeah it's not like any of the founding members of Breitbart are setting foot in the White House or anything!

shut the fuck up you massive piece of shit.

Yes, because the real issue is that alcoholic Steve Bannon lasted 3 months in the White House,

ETA: Also, as mad as you are, you might be damina.
It kinda matters that he ended up there at all. Jeff Sessions is, um, no angel either.
But here we are again, you are conflating Jeff Sessions and Steve Bannon -- as odious as they may be -- with Nazis.  Do you see the problem here?

With Bannon, it fits pretty well.  And let's not forget about the shitbags Gorka and Steve Miller.

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #68
It kinda matters that he ended up there at all. Jeff Sessions is, um, no angel either.
But here we are again, you are conflating Jeff Sessions and Steve Bannon -- as odious as they may be -- with Nazis.  Do you see the problem here?
fwiw i don't really think it's necessary to decide whether they are the equivalents of nazis. the issue is that they indicate that policy from the highest level has the potential to be tepid on handling nazis because i am pretty sure these two are more concerned with muslims and blacks than anything white people are doing.

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #69
Quote from: tysixtus date=1492436130 link=msg1=81444
What's the problem?  Punch Nazis, etc.  I thought the Resistance was ready to rumble?
I haven't seen anybody claim resistance to the Trump admin or movement behind it would be easy. Is the point that the chance to punch a nazi should have drawn more people?

My point is, what were people expecting?  Overt violence is a gift to these people.
another thing that is a gift to them: a lack of violent opposition.

no one "expected" nazis to play nice. think harder.

Then why are people scandalized that this shit is going on?  Because it sure seems to me that a bunch of children expected something different from what we're seeing now, that's for sure.

The MSM is scandalized.  I don't think this surprises anyone who lives in the Bay Area.

Okay, fair enough.  I don't live there obviously, so I have no idea how they are treated in your neck of the woods.

Quote
I can't really see a set of circumstances where neonazi and white identity groups disappear entirely that doesn't involve a Utopian science fiction future.

I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power.  They are jokes, and I think the old trick of just ridiculing them in public and in intellectual life was way more effective than clashing with them on the street. 


Not really. In the 80's they were a major presence in the Portland area and it really sucked a lot. It took a coordinated law enforcement and community engaged policy to get them to stop beating on people and robbing them and so on.

Okay so, sounds we already know how to deal with them. 
Well, we know how we did it in Portland which has/had a freakishly community oriented culture. And we know that the general solution was not a final solution. Ugh. And we know that the systemic processes that happened to work here worked especially because Portland is already massively white and liberal. I'm not sure how they'd do it in Rochester, or Newark for that matter. It wasn't simple, or easy, and we managed it by having literally tens of thousands of citizen volunteers involved. That doesn't seem very typical of American cities. The rest of this country tends to see democracy and government as a spectator sport.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #70
No, I don't mean that.  Not sure you mean it either.
So you think mainstream right wing people view them as racists?

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #71
I think that you are probably right. But these groups have been around a long time and they've never managed to be serious contenders for any real political power. 

yeah it's not like any of the founding members of Breitbart are setting foot in the White House or anything!

shut the fuck up you massive piece of shit.

Yes, because the real issue is that alcoholic Steve Bannon lasted 3 months in the White House,

ETA: Also, as mad as you are, you might be damina.
It kinda matters that he ended up there at all. Jeff Sessions is, um, no angel either.
But here we are again, you are conflating Jeff Sessions and Steve Bannon -- as odious as they may be -- with Nazis.  Bannon is a shithead, but even the ADL doesn't call him a Nazi. Do you see the problem here?  I feel like many of you have lost all sense of proportion.
Um, I think you missed my point. I was accidentally coy about it. Sorry. The point is that if you put a bunch of ideological racists in the power centers of government, you are legitimizing ideological racism, of which Nazism is a branch. And to be clear, I am basically ok with equating the klan and nazis.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • tysixtus
  • SAMURAI DORUGO
Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #72
No, I don't mean that.  Not sure you mean it either.
So you think mainstream right wing people view them as racists?

Are you asking me whether or not I think mainstream right-wingers think that self-identified Nazis, who throw up Nazi salutes and wear Nazi iconography, are racists?

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #73
No, I don't mean that.  Not sure you mean it either.
So you think mainstream right wing people view them as racists?

Are you asking me whether or not I think mainstream right-wingers think that self-identified Nazis, who throw up Nazi salutes and wear Nazi iconography, are racists?
well, do you?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Planned violence in Berkeley for Trump Tax Day
Reply #74
No, I don't mean that.  Not sure you mean it either.
So you think mainstream right wing people view them as racists?

Are you asking me whether or not I think mainstream right-wingers think that self-identified Nazis, who throw up Nazi salutes and wear Nazi iconography, are racists?
I'm asking if you think mainstream right-wingers think that the pro-Trump side of this incident were racists.