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Topic: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD (Read 3468 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • meepmeep
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Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2017/01/make_2017_the_year_to_avoid_to.html

It hits all the right notes:
- thimerosal = mercury = death  :stopper:
- formaldehyde  = death :stopper:
- "the flu vaccine gave me the flu"
- everything is tainted with chemicals whose names good average folks can't pronounce
- "Autism and ADHD didn't exist when I was a kid!"
- quote that cites foodbabe.com for information on eating "toxin-free" food

This guy is the medical director and COO of the Wellness Institute at Cleveland Clinic.

 :psypop:

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #1
Whenever I see the word 'wellness' associated with some kind of health entity I immediately think it's going to be an 'alternative/naturopath/etc.' friendly place to spend money for no good result.

  • VoxRat
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #2
Cleveland Clinic !??? :staregonk:

That is home to some really top-tier scientists.
In immunology, fercrissakes.

ETA:
Some of whom I know.
I'll have to ask about this next time I run into one.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #3
That article is full of bullshit. Hep B can be passed through multiple vectors, not just sexually. This guy is supposed to be a doctor.

Quote
The virus is transmitted by exposure to infectious blood or body fluids. Infection around the time of birth or from contact with other people's blood during childhood is the most frequent method by which hepatitis B is acquired in areas where the disease is common. In areas where the disease is rare, intravenous drug use and sexual intercourse are the most frequent routes of infection.[1] Other risk factors include working in healthcare, blood transfusions, dialysis, living with an infected person, travel in countries where the infection rate is high, and living in an institution.[1][3] Tattooing and acupuncture led to a significant number of cases in the 1980s; however, this has become less common with improved sterility.[


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_B
We, as childcare workers, had workshops with Public Health personnel for the very reason that childhood exposure isn't at all rare.

The rest of his scare talk about vaccines is just as uneducated and bizarre.

  • meepmeep
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #4
Cleveland Clinic !??? :staregonk:

That is home to some really top-tier scientists.
In immunology, fercrissakes.

ETA:
Some of whom I know.
I'll have to ask about this next time I run into one.

Yeah. Exactly. Hence the :psypop: .

Looks like one of the types of services the Wellness Institute offers is fucking reiki: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/wellness/integrative-medicine/treatments-services/reiki

 :psyboom:

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #5
Uh oh ..... Voxrat is on a witch hunt

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #6
I just read the entire article ...

Meepmeep you're a fucking liar

I'm glad this guy is rattling some cages ... if only Voxrat's. ...

Some cages need to be rattled.

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #7
And the reason you are a liar is because you totally mischaracterized the guy in your OP

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #8
I just read the entire article ...

Meepmeep you're a fucking liar

I'm glad this guy is rattling some cages ... if only Voxrat's. ...

Some cages need to be rattled.
Content-free blather and calumny noted.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • meepmeep
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #9
That article is full of bullshit. Hep B can be passed through multiple vectors, not just sexually. This guy is supposed to be a doctor.

Quote
The virus is transmitted by exposure to infectious blood or body fluids. Infection around the time of birth or from contact with other people's blood during childhood is the most frequent method by which hepatitis B is acquired in areas where the disease is common. In areas where the disease is rare, intravenous drug use and sexual intercourse are the most frequent routes of infection.[1] Other risk factors include working in healthcare, blood transfusions, dialysis, living with an infected person, travel in countries where the infection rate is high, and living in an institution.[1][3] Tattooing and acupuncture led to a significant number of cases in the 1980s; however, this has become less common with improved sterility.[


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_B
We, as childcare workers, had workshops with Public Health personnel for the very reason that childhood exposure isn't at all rare.

The rest of his scare talk about vaccines is just as uneducated and bizarre.

Right, I yelled, "BECAUSE IT CAN BE TRANSMITTED AT BIRTH, DUMBASS" at my screen when I read that part. Not to mention, they've found that the virus is stable for days on surfaces at room temperature and that fomites can be a source of infection. For infants, infection is most likely to occur perinatally or from exposure to infected adults in the household. But hurr durrr it's not like a 3 month old is out having sex and shooting up heroin, *chugs kale smoothie*. Since the recommendations changed to include vaccination at birth, the percentage of children and adolescents with chronic HPB infections has dropped like a rock, as have incidences of liver cancer. But :stopper: ADHD and IEPs :stopper: !

It's incredible to me how fucking stupid people get as medicine improves and how much they forget. The only time people care about vaccines is when children are literally dying in front of their fucking faces. If we manage to control the problem, then the disease that causes it obviously ceases to be dangerous or a risk.

And, christ, who can blame people who haven't studied much science for not understanding vaccines when a goddamn MD who presumably went to medical school gets it so horribly, stupidly, incredibly wrong? :cripes:

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #10
There are no need for vaccines in a healthy population ...

Of cows
Or goats
Or chickens
Or humans

The end

  • VoxRat
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #11
More content-free blather.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #12
Of course there are many in our world today who have a vested interest in unhealthy populations ...  and perhaps vaccinations are a help to those unhealthy populations.

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #13
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #14
Of course there are many in our world today who have a vested interest in unhealthy populations ...  and perhaps vaccinations are a help to those unhealthy populations.
Nice little bit of social Darwinism there.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • RAFH
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #15
There are no need for vaccines in a healthy population ...

Of cows
Or goats
Or chickens
Or humans

The end
Boldly asserts Bluffy, the supposed cum laude Bachelor of Science in EE who couldn't do a simple battery - load calculation, and despite his self-claimed Google-Fu, couldn't look it up. Given that amazing performance, I have no doubts about his opinions regarding disease and vaccines, indeed, anything at all. He is, after all, according to himself, BRILLIANT, and his mind runs circles around everyone elses.

What a bluffoon.
Are we there yet?

  • fredbear
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #16
Dave.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

You sad sad shit for brains scumbag.
"...without considering any evidence at all - that my views are more likely - on average - to be correct.  Because the mainstream is almost always wrong" - Dave Hawkins

  • Pingu
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #17
I just read the entire article ...

Meepmeep you're a fucking liar

I'm glad this guy is rattling some cages ... if only Voxrat's. ...

Some cages need to be rattled.

If you can't be civil to meepmeep get out of the thread.  You have enough threads you started yourself to keep yourself busy, many of which you are conspicuously ignoring.  What's meepmeep ever done to you that you call her a fucking liar? Meepmeep has more integrity in her little finger than you can even conceive of.

  • Pingu
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #18
Quote from: Daniel Neides
Does the vaccine burden - as has been debated for years - cause autism? I don't know and will not debate that here.

Indeed he doesn't "debate it".  He just proceeds with several paragraphs of unevidenced innuendo and does not so much as mention the EVIDENCE that the no link between vaccines and autism has been discovered despite extensive studies specifically powered to find the tiniest of links.

And cites increasing prevalence rates of DIAGNOSES of autism and ADHD over the years while ignoring good evidence that the underlying prevalence has not changed over decades, or across geographic regions.

Although one toxin that has been implicated in ADHD, is lead in fuel.

And another toxin that used to be linked to the DEATHS of many children is diphtheria toxin.

Yet another factor emerging as a contributor to serious mental illness is flu in pregnancy.

Then of course there's the effect on children of rubella in pregnancy.

The guy is not just ignorant, he's dangerous.  And stupid.  How stupid is this?

Quote
And worse yet, formaldehyde is a known carcinogen. Yet, here we are, being lined up like cattle and injected with an unsafe product. Within 12 hours of receiving the vaccine, I was in bed feeling miserable and missed two days of work with a terrible cough and body aches.

So formaldehyde causes cough and body aches?  Who knew?


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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #19
If he'd got actual flu it would probably be more like three weeks of missed work.
Why do I bother?

  • Pingu
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #20
I get pretty angry at this "ADHD and autism rates are rising" canard.  "There was never any ADHD when we were kids.   A good hiding was all we needed to shape up".

There are certainly parts of the world (especially parts of the US) where rates of diagnosis are clearly far too high - but that doesn't mean the underlying rates are rising.  In fact, there are many regions in the US where diagnostic rates are too low - children are being missed.

ADHD rates MAY be rising, but if so, it's slow, and probably not primarily to do with "toxins".  It's highly heritable for a start.  And at least some of the presenting problems, if not the underlying trait, may be interaction with an educational environment that makes demands on children that they did not evolve to meet, like sitting in chairs at desks and being make to learn stuff like reading and writing, instead of exploring the forest and learning which plants are edible and which ones are poisonous.  If I had my druthers, I'd have children spend a LOT more time outside, clambering and exploring, and also doing big art projects and playing music.  I think it would be good for their brains as well as their bodies, and actually make them smarter and quicker at learning stuff like science and math.


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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #21
I just read the entire article ...

Meepmeep you're a fucking liar

I'm glad this guy is rattling some cages ... if only Voxrat's. ...

Some cages need to be rattled.

If you can't be civil to meepmeep get out of the thread.  You have enough threads you started yourself to keep yourself busy, many of which you are conspicuously ignoring.  What's meepmeep ever done to you that you call her a fucking liar? Meepmeep has more integrity in her little finger than you can even conceive of.
No. She doesn't. Read the OP.  She completely misrepresented that guy.  And what's really maddening is that you guys walk around all holier than thou whining about me misrepresenting people when I actually don't and then you guys turn around and misrepresent others and yell at me for calling you on it.

 Such hypocrisy.
  • Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 04:49:05 AM by Dave Hawkins

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #22
And since when did "being civil" become a prerequisite for posting in a thread?

  • JonF
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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #23
I just read the entire article ...

Meepmeep you're a fucking liar

I'm glad this guy is rattling some cages ... if only Voxrat's. ...

Some cages need to be rattled.

If you can't be civil to meepmeep get out of the thread.  You have enough threads you started yourself to keep yourself busy, many of which you are conspicuously ignoring.  What's meepmeep ever done to you that you call her a fucking liar? Meepmeep has more integrity in her little finger than you can even conceive of.
No. She doesn't. Read the OP.  She completely misrepresented that guy.  And what's really maddening is that you guys walk around all holier than thou whining about me misrepresenting people when I actually don't and then you guys turn around and misrepresent others and yell at me for calling you on it.
Exactly how did she misrepresent him?

When we call you out for misrepresenting, we specify how.

{ABE} I just compared the link to her summary.  The OP is 100% accurate,
  • Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 04:59:45 AM by JonF
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Anti-vax stupidity from Cleveland Clinic MD
Reply #24
I suggest people ignore Dave on this thread.  If he wants to start another one, let him.