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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #25
Just notice how the "really smart" cool kids have posted in this thread so far.  They exemplify the "I don't give a fuck" attitude that is the symptom of too much bullshit, a lifetime of bullshit, where rather than realizing a damn thing, they just want to kill the messenger.

Truth is viewed as bullshit, and Orwell spins in his grave.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #26
If there were areas of four or five feet of snow on the ground in 2010, it was likely because of wind gusts or plows. There's a reason the official measurements are what they are. Even the Knickerbocker storm of 1922, which had drifts of 16 feet didn't measure more than about 2.5 feet of actual accumulation, and that storm destroyed a theater.

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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #27
If there were areas of four or five feet of snow on the ground in 2010, it was likely because of wind gusts or plows.
Nope.  Other measurements show this clearly, with 24 to 36 inches for the first blizzard, and 19 to 30 for the second.

Baltimore official totals were 25'' and 19'' for the first and second..

Sterling/Dulles was 31'' for the first one.

It varied by location of course, with certain areas getting well over 60 inches, not counting drifts.  The plow piles were 12 feet high before the couldn't plow anymore. 

It was a true disaster.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #28
Quote
#4: Snowmageddon
17.8″ of snow in D.C. | February 5-6, 2010

The aptly named Snowmageddon occurred within D.C.'s snowiest winter on record when 56.1 inches accumulated. The winter featured a major snow blitz from January 30 through February 10 in which 38.1 inches of snow fell from four different storms. Snowmageddon was one of the rare times where snow falls on old snow in the city, then it was followed by even more. A "wet" storm, totals past 30 inches from Snowmageddon alone were recorded in the region, including a 32.4 inch tally at Dulles in Loudoun County. About as big as it gets around here, just a matter of where saw the most.
http://www.ianlivingston.com/d-c-s-double-digit-snowstorms-a-guide-to-their-development-and-the-patterns-that-produced-them/

The Dec 2009 blizzard had more than 2 feet, with the official records at 15 inches.

Front Royal shows 21 inches, but having lived through it, it was over two feet for the December snow.  The next two were beyond anything anyone had ever experienced in the area.

  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 06:35:02 AM by F X
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #29
Of course in the city where snow blew off roofs onto the sidewalks and streets, it was unbelievable. A hangar at Dulles did collapse from the weight, as did a downtown church as well.

It actually was a shit ton of snow.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #30
You can quit worrying about it FX. The Republicans are defunding and disappearing anything to do with climate change, environmental concerns, endangered species protection as fast as they can, and selling off national wild lands to corporate oil and mining concerns as well. Are you happy now?

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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #31
Ah, didn't realize you were lumping the separate storms together. Yes, obviously if you do that the total is higher.

ETA: I'm still not sure I believe there were any areas with more than about 3 feet of accumulated depth due to actual snowfall, not counting drifts, at any point during the events though. There was some melt between the two storms. The Takoma Park data shows an example of some of the highest depth amounts in the area:



ETA2: I could believe there were shady areas that didn't have as much melt, but I don't see any data on them.

ETA3: Or maybe it's sublimation, since presumably that graph would show melt if there was any? About that amount of snow loss between the two events seems to show up in all the data sets for the area though.
  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 07:25:12 AM by BenTheBiased

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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #32
The Takoma Park data shows an example of some of the highest depth amounts in the area:
Nonsense.  Baltimore shows 114 cm from the two storms.

As most sites note, accumulations were higher in the suburbs.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #33
The snow depth also is skewed because the second storm was wet heavy snow, it crunched the powder down as it accumulated. There was no melting between the storms at all.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #34
The Takoma Park data shows an example of some of the highest depth amounts in the area:
Nonsense.  Baltimore shows 114 cm from the two storms.

As most sites note, accumulations were higher in the suburbs.

I meant in the DC area, but yeah, I do see 48 inches for Towson. Just thought it was weird because I lived in Baltimore at the time and I don't remember there ever being more than 2-3 feet of snow on the ground at any given time, but I guess it was more in the suburbs.

The snow depth also is skewed because the second storm was wet heavy snow, it crunched the powder down as it accumulated. There was no melting between the storms at all.

I guess that could be? But all the data sets seem to show the amount going down on the days between when there was no snow.

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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #35
Yes, the data does show that. 

The official DC data will show the snow depth peaked at 21 inches on the 11th, despite there being three snowfalls, Feb 2-3, 5-6 and then 9-10

The first was 8 inches, the second 24, 28, 32 or more, the third 20-24, depending on where you were.  There was no melting between them. Even with the official records it was the all time snow record for many areas.  The reality was (as evidenced by the inability to clear the railroads, highways and roofs) 4 or 5 feet of snow in many areas. If you were lucky it was only 36 inches of snow.

If it was only the "official" 21 inches, the plows could have kept the roads clear, and clean up wouldn't have taken 2 weeks. The 22 days with snow cover for Feb 2010 is also the record by far for the DC area.

Somebody looking at the official records might wonder what the big deal was.  Why did they close the Post office for the first time?  Why was the entire Government closed for so long?

Quote
You're living history, Washington: Federal agencies across the nation's capital will close Thursday for a fourth straight day -- taking the week-long shutdown of the government into uncharted territory.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/02/federal_government_shutdown_ex.html

Quote
The 1995 and 1996 budget impasses kept workers away for weeks, and offices closed for three consecutive days due to inclement weather in January 1996 -- but four consecutive snow days is unheard of.

Quote
The historic snowstorm over the weekend in the Washington DC area resulted in the Federal Government closing early on February 5, 2010, full day closures February 8th - 11th, and a two hour delayed opening on February 12th.
http://blogs.aronsonllc.com/fedpoint/2010/02/12/snowmageddon-2010-closes-dc-area-federal-government-impacts-govt-site-contractors/

You have to understand that Friday (2-5-2010) they closed early (but not early enough, many people got caught Friday, it was a nightmare), then the Government didn't open up again for a week, and it was very limited, since most roads were not clear on the 12, then the weekend again.  The Metro was also not cleared for a week. 

In essence the Government was shut down from the 5th to the 15th Feb 2010







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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #36
Looking at the official snow totals, it might be hard to understand why trees were down all over, roads impassable for weeks, rail service cancelled, and the plows taken off the roads, twice. 

At some point they just stopped trying to keep up, there was too much snow, and no place left to shove it off the road. The salt ran out, nature ruled for a time.

The official story leads to bullshit like
Quote
"It's embarrassing that the world's largest superpower closes from a few feet of snow," a 23-year-old tourist on the National Mall told the Associated Press. "The Kremlin must be laughing."
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1963519,00.html

See?  It's fucking bullshit man, there had never been anything like it before. The snow was fucking epic, and it happened three times in a row, just one after the other, with no melting between.

But the official story was "just a few feet of snow", so what's the big deal?

But fuck man, they had road trains, just trains of dump trucks spreading salt and sand, all plowing away, constantly, trying to keep at least the major highways open (because emergency vehicles, nobody else would be out in it), and it just wasn't possible.

Too much snow.  It came down to one lane on the 6 lane highways, and even then there just wasn't anywhere to plow the snow into. 



  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 09:38:32 AM by F X
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #37
They even had road construction vehicles out, front end loaders, graders, bulldozers, backhoes, they threw everything possible at the snow. 

By the time they got to the side roads a week later, they had to use front end loaders to scrape the ice up and pile it on the sidewalks, because the snow was crushed down to 6 inches of ice, solid and unmoving.  No plows could work by then.  It was horrific.

People with big vehicles drove on the snow in the week after the storms, packing it down to ice.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #38
Switching gears for a minute.

You may have heard how the US is experiencing climate change/global warming, and how winters are warming fastest. 

http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/which-season-is-warming-fastest

Quote
While the U.S. as a whole has seen a warming trend that has raised annual average temperatures by 1.3°F over the past 100 years, warming varies seasonally, and it's winter that has seen the fastest warming.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/21/us-temperature-trends_n_2735036.html

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/winters-are-warming-all-across-the-us-15590

The problem once again, is that it is bullshit.







http://cci-reanalyzer.org/clim/prism/

  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 12:01:21 PM by F X
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #39
Here's what the drastic winter warming looks like.



Haha but seriously

The West is actually warming however.




  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 12:07:47 PM by F X
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #40
Please check the data for yourself.  Don't just take somebodies word for this shit.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #41
jesus fuck I've unwatched this thread twice. Protip: if you go into a forum the threads you have on ignore are still visible.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #42
Checked and confirmed. US winters are warming faster than the rest of the year. Specifically, 0.09 degrees F per decade faster:





(Christ why do I bother with this shit?)


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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #43
Read the links, it will help.

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/winters-are-warming-all-across-the-us-15590

They are selling you on the "truth" that winters are warming the fastest, and they show the Ohio valley region as some of thew fastest warming winters.

They look at the data, and see a fast winter warming trend.



They look at this data, and see a fast warming trend.



I know, it's hard to imagine.

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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #44
I meant in the DC area, but yeah, I do see 48 inches for Towson. Just thought it was weird because I lived in Baltimore at the time and I don't remember there ever being more than 2-3 feet of snow on the ground at any given time, but I guess it was more in the suburbs.

You lived in Baltimore and you don't remember that snow?
I lived in Pikesville at the time and remember that storm caused it sucked.  2 feet of snow over the weekend, then another 2 feet of snow on Tuesday/Wednesday.  So much shoveling.  It totally sucks digging a parking space for your car twice in a week.  It takes a while to forget that.
:(


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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #45
I meant in the DC area, but yeah, I do see 48 inches for Towson. Just thought it was weird because I lived in Baltimore at the time and I don't remember there ever being more than 2-3 feet of snow on the ground at any given time, but I guess it was more in the suburbs.

You lived in Baltimore and you don't remember that snow?
I lived in Pikesville at the time and remember that storm caused it sucked.  2 feet of snow over the weekend, then another 2 feet of snow on Tuesday/Wednesday.  So much shoveling.  It totally sucks digging a parking space for your car twice in a week.  It takes a while to forget that.
:(


I remember the snow well. Although I was living in the middle of the city and parking under the I-83 overpass at the time so I managed to get out of shoveling, which may affect my memory of how much snow there actually was. (The next year I moved to Locust Point and definitely have vivid memories of being pissed at having to dig multiple street spots when it snowed, although it was fortunately much less snow.) Still don't recall there ever being more than 2 feet on the ground downtown in 2010, maybe 3. Granted, I stayed inside most of the time, but I feel like I'd have remembered if the snow was above my waist when I did go out (ETA: other than drifts/plowed areas obviously). But like I said there was probably more outside the city.

ETA2: Also possibly the city cleaned up enough of the first snow where I lived before the second that I never really saw the cumulative effect of the two that other areas might have seen.
  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:02:31 PM by BenTheBiased

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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #46
Quote
It will be hard to ever top the back-to-back storms of "Snowmageddon" in February 2010 were, with a combined 44.5 inches of snowfall over five days.
http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/2016/01/baltimores-biggest-snow-storms/#1

Certainly not everywhere saw the heaviest snow, so it's possible that it was only three feet in some regions.  It was the back to back blizzards that really broke all the records.

But there was also the heavy second snowfall, which crunched the first one down, making the snow height much smaller than if it had all been powder. A foot and a half of heavy snow will compact the two feet of powder already on the ground.

  • Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:17:37 PM by F X
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #47
I lived in Pikesville at the time and remember that storm caused it sucked

Yes, it sucked more than anything has sucked before.  My very first winter up north, and there were four blizzards,  Three of them in the top 10 biggest blizzards of all time.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #48
It's a main reason I started checking the data, rather than just explaining to everyone how global warming was causing them.
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Re: Why I don't believe the bullshit (climate or even weather news)
Reply #49
It's definitely possible that living downtown where the streets were kept as clear as possible, and not having had to shovel, has lessened that event in my memory. I lived in Ellicott City during the 2003 storm and in Columbia during last year's, and I had to do lots of shoveling during both of those, so they were both worse than 2010 for me personally. 2010 was actually kind of awesome. All I did was sit in my sweet downtown apartment playing video games for a week. Man I miss that place.