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Topic: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems (Read 1032 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #25
You know, North America had a huge problem with immigrants about 500 years ago, and it seems to be getting worse.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #26
You know, North America had a huge problem with immigrants about 500 years ago, and it seems to be getting worse.

I was tempted to learn how to play bridge, but I gave it up. I would probably have yelled No Trump too much.

Added: Just found an analogy in a Danish paper: So riddled with errors and manipulations that it exceeds Trump on Twitter.
  • Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 10:02:44 AM by Lugubert

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #27
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #28
You know, North America had a huge problem with immigrants about 500 years ago, and it seems to be getting worse.

Hmm ... I agree!

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #29
The trouble is Dave, we don't want you back.
Why do I bother?

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #30
Fact-checking President Trump's CPAC speech
Quote
President Trump's speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference at National Harbor in Maryland was littered with some of the president's favorite and frequently cited falsehoods. Here's a roundup of 13 of his more dubious claims, listed in the order in which he made them: ...
(I'll let the interested reader go to the article for details. )

Turns out Trump is a lying liar who lies a lot.
Who knew?  :dunno:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #31
So Trump had a crystal ball and was talking about a thing that hadn't happened yet? Or he utterly sucks at communication? Because he seemed to be referring to a specific event, rather than some general problems in specific areas.
He was moving fast and worded it wrong ... "last night" meant "last night's TV program" ... God ... how long does it take for this to sink into your titanium cranium?
So...

Your fucking PRESIDENT says " look at what's happening last night in Sweden", and he actually means "look at that [biased and basically fabricated] tv show that aired last night showing Sweden's [supposed] problems with immigration".

And you see no problem with that. In fact, it's OTHERS who have a "titanium cranium".

You're a hopeless Gullible Rube, dave.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #32
So Trump had a crystal ball and was talking about a thing that hadn't happened yet? Or he utterly sucks at communication? Because he seemed to be referring to a specific event, rather than some general problems in specific areas.
He was moving fast and worded it wrong ... "last night" meant "last night's TV program" ... God ... how long does it take for this to sink into your titanium cranium?
I don't expect world leaders to get their information from unvetted TV interviews with documentary makers.
OK ... I'm not sure he got that info from "unvetted TV interviews with documentary makers" ... maybe that interview only confirmed what he already knew ... you don't know this and I don't either ... you shouldn't spout off about things you don't know ...
:facepalm:

He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?

Quote
In any case, the important point is ... HE WAS RIGHT ... as admitted by the WSJ ... an outlet I assume that YOU trust ... right?
Ffs.

Dave, no one "admitted" anything.
OPINION ARTICLES are NOT "news". I can give you an opinion article right now in one of all the papers we have here in Greece, praising our PM for his "excellent" handling of the IMF and their demands. And I can find you another article, discribing the same events as a colossal disaster for the country.

Remember what you told us about discerning the truth? Going to the source? What does the source say, dave?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #33

Allergic-to-fact-checking Dave didn't bother to for example Google the name Jimmie Åkesson.
Wikipedia has this on the party he heads:

Sweden Democrats or Swedish Democrats (Swedish: Sverigedemokraterna, SD) is a nationalist political party in Sweden that was founded in 1988. The party describes itself as social conservative with a nationalist foundation, though it has been characterized by some as far-right, right-wing populist, national-conservative, and anti-immigration. The party had its roots in Swedish fascism and was a part of the white supremacy movement; initially, it was characterized by right-wing extremism and activism. SD's logo from the 1990s until 2006 was a version of the torch used by the UK National Front.

According to Jimmie's article, the suicide bomber six years ago "tried to blow up hundreds of people". Maybe he wanted to, but thanks to his incompetence, he only managed to blow himself up.

"Schools have banned singing of Christian hymns, because they don't want to offend immigrants." Of course there is no such ban for that reason. Confessional elements (hymns, blessings, creeds) in teaching situations are not allowed for any religion. A few traditions are allowed, like a certain summer hymn on last day of school before summer, and lighting candles at advent.

"Sex crimes nearly doubled from 2014 to 2015." 2014: 1 % of the inhabitants, 2015: 1.7 %. Bad enough, but an increase in reporting should be factored in. Problem awareness, less stigma, more support to victims helps ease of reporting. I don't know for these years, but an increasing number of types of sexual harassment being classed as rape will of course also increase reported numbers.

No surprise that the Swedish Minister of Justice lashed out in unusually harsh words (dynga: 'dung') condemning Jimmie's distortions.
As expected.

Do you enjoy breaking bread with such people, dave?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #34
You know, North America had a huge problem with immigrants about 500 years ago, and it seems to be getting worse.

Hmm ... I agree!
No.

You don't.

You just pretend you do.

Three words, dave: Dakota Access Pipeline.
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #35
The trouble is Dave, we don't want you back.
I wouldn't want to come back. I would have been one of those guys that Ben Franklin wrote about who ran off with the Indians and never came back.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #36
Yeah, the Indians would have offed you for being an insufferable ass. :grin:
Truth is out of style

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #37
"He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?"

He did?

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #38
The trouble is Dave, we don't want you back.
I wouldn't want to come back. I would have been one of those guys that Ben Franklin wrote about who ran off with the Indians and never came back.
And you mindlessly support the guy who's ramming DAPL down their throats. 
Well done.  :golfclap:
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #39
"He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?"

He did?
Yeah. He did.
  • Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 04:59:22 PM by VoxRat
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #40
Honestly Dave, they're the ones we are happy to have back. Its the puritans we don't want. We ended up sending a bunch to Ireland, and that was a disaster. The ones who went to the states are even worse.
Why do I bother?

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #41
"He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?"

He did?
Yeah. He did.
dave has scored a perfect zero in his defense of his dear leader.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #42
"He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?"

He did?
Yeah. He did.
no. Try again.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #43
Hey Dave, wanna read something written by a real, live Indian?

Standing Rock is burning - but our resistance isn't over

Quote
The majority of the few hundred remaining protesters marched out, arm in arm ahead of the North Dakota authorities' Wednesday eviction deadline. An estimated one hundred others refused the state's order, choosing to remain in camp and face certain arrest in order to defend land and water promised to the Oceti Sakowin, or Great Sioux Nation, in the long-broken Fort Laramie Treaty of 1851.
Quote
At Standing Rock, 41% of citizens live in poverty. That is almost three times the national average. The reservation's basic infrastructure is chronically underfunded. Schools are failing. Jobs are few and far between, and 24% of reservation residents are unemployed. Healthcare is inadequate. Many depend on unsafe wells for water. Roads are often unpaved. Housing is in short supply, substandard and overcrowded. If the people of Standing Rock did not take-in their beloved family and friends, there would be mass homelessness.

Dakota Access Pipeline's price tag of $3.8bn is nearly $1bn more than the entire budget of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Energy Transfer Partners CEO Kelcy Warren is said to be worth $4.2bn. The pipeline will pour even more wealth into his pockets.
Quote
The erasure of indigenous people explains why Dakota Access was rerouted from upstream of Bismarck south to Standing Rock. It explains why pipelines can be hammered through Native communities without regard to their treaties and indigenous, constitutional and human rights. It explains why a multi-billion dollar pipe can be drilled through Standing Rock before long-needed basic infrastructure is built. It explains how, after months of unprecedented protests and visibility, Trump can claim that he received no complaints about the pipeline.
Truth is out of style

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #44
"He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?"

He did?
Yeah. He did.
no. Try again.
Your "nuh-uh" doesn't really cut it.
I linked to the actual evidence.

YOU "try again".
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #45
Dave will have no response re DAPL, same as his no response to other tragedies Trump causes, encourages, or ignores.

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #46
The bizarre thing about DAPL is that it's arguably unnecessary and won't be profitable anyway. It's basically being finished just because it was started, even though there's no real use for it.
Truth is out of style

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #47
For anyone who's interested: http://ieefa.org/ieefa-commentary-economic-frailty-rickety-finances-behind-dakota-access-pipeline/

Quote
Construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline has sparked considerable public controversy, bringing national attention to issues that include tribal sovereignty and risks to drinking water.

Less publicized are the project's financial weaknesses, and the fact the pipeline may represent a substantial overbuilding of the Bakken's oil-transport infrastructure. The report that we released today in partnership with the Sightline Institute, "The High-Risk Financing Behind the Dakota Access Pipeline: A Stranded Asset in the Making in the Bakken Region of North Dakota," delves into these risks.
Quote
THE IMPETUS FOR STRIKING NEW DEALS ON DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE CONTRACTS IS ROOTED IN RADICAL CHANGES IN THE BROADER ECONOMIC CONTEXT in which the project was proposed in 2014 and in which the majority of the contracts were signed. Global oil prices began to collapse just a few months after shippers committed to using DAPL, and consensus market forecasts see no recovery for at least a decade.

Rather than growing as previously projected, production in the Bakken Shale oil field has fallen for nearly two consecutive years, creating major financial hardships for drillers, who may be eager to renegotiate the terms of their contracts with DAPL.

If oil prices remain low, as currently projected, Bakken oil production will continue to decline, and existing pipeline and refinery capacity in the Bakken will be more than adequate to handle the region's oil production. And if production continues to fall, the Dakota Access Pipeline will become a stranded asset--one rushed to completion largely to protect the favorable contract terms its developers negotiated in 2014.
This also applies to other pipelines. For example, the tar sands are going down the tubes in a  big way (Exxon has just written off large reserves due to them being commercially unviable).
Truth is out of style

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #48
Quote
Trump Is Right: Sweden's Embrace of Refugees Isn't Working
The country has accepted 275,000 asylum-seekers, many without passports--leading to riots and crime.

By JIMMIE ÅKESSON and  MATTIAS KARLSSON
Feb. 22, 2017 6:43 p.m. ET

When President Trump last week raised Sweden's problematic experience with open-door immigration, skeptics were quick to dismiss his claims. Two days later an immigrant suburb of Stockholm was racked by another riot. No one was seriously injured, though the crowd burned cars and hurled stones at police officers.

Mr. Trump did not exaggerate Sweden's current problems. If anything, he understated them. Sweden took in about 275,000 asylum-seekers from 2014-16--more per capita than any other European country. Eighty percent of ...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-right-swedens-embrace-of-refugees-isnt-working-1487807010

[EDIT: Sorry fixed the link]

Let's look at this a little closer:
Quote
When President Trump last week raised Sweden's problematic experience with open-door immigration, skeptics were quick to dismiss his claims. Two days later an immigrant suburb of Stockholm was racked by another riot. No one was seriously injured, though the crowd burned cars and hurled stones at police officers. Mr. Trump did not exaggerate Sweden's current problems. If anything, he understated them. Sweden took in about 275,000 asylum-seekers from 2014-16--more per capita than any other European country. Eighty percent of those who came in 2015 lacked passports and identification, but a majority come from Muslim nations. Islam has become Sweden's second-largest religion. In Malmö, our third-largest city, Mohamed is the most common name for baby boys. The effects are palpable, starting with national security. An estimated 300 Swedish citizens with immigrant backgrounds have traveled to the Middle East to fight for Islamic State. Many are now returning to Sweden and are being welcomed back with open arms by our socialist government. In December 2010 we had our first suicide attack on Swedish soil, when an Islamic terrorist tried to blow up hundreds of civilians in central Stockholm while they were shopping for Christmas presents. Thankfully the bomber killed only himself.
Riots and social unrest have become a part of everyday life. Police officers, firefighters and ambulance personnel are regularly attacked. Serious riots in 2013, involving many suburbs with large immigrant populations, lasted for almost a week. Gang violence is booming. Despite very strict firearm laws, gun violence is five times as common in Sweden, in total, as in the capital cities of our three Nordic neighbors combined. Anti-Semitism has risen. Jews in Malmö are threatened, harassed and assaulted in the streets. Many have left the city, becoming internal refugees in their country of birth. The number of sex crimes nearly doubled from 2014-15, according to surveys by the Swedish government body for crime statistics. One-third of Swedish women report that they no longer feel secure in their own neighborhoods, and 12% say they don't feel safe going out alone after dark. A 1996 report from the same government body found that immigrant men were far likelier to commit rape than Swedish men. Last year our party asked the minister of justice to conduct a new report on crime and immigration, and he replied: "In light of previous studies, I do not see that a further report on recorded crime and individuals' origins would add knowledge with the potential to improve the Swedish society." Our nation's culture hasn't been spared either. Artists accused of insulting Islam live under death threats. Dance performances and art exhibitions have been called off for fear of angering Islamists. Schools have prohibited the singing of traditional Christian hymns because they don't want to "insult" non-Christian immigrants. Yet reports made with hidden cameras by journalists from Swedish public media show mosques teaching fundamentalist interpretations of Islam. Sweden's government now spends an incredible amount of money caring for newly arrived immigrants each year. The unemployment rate among immigrants is five times as high as that of native Swedes. Among some groups, such as Somalis, in places like Malmö unemployment reaches 80%. Our party, the Sweden Democrats, wants to put the security and welfare of Swedish citizens first. We are surging in the opinion polls and seem to have a good chance of becoming the country's largest party during the elections next year. We will not rest until we have made Sweden safe again. For the sake of the American people, with whom we share so many strong historical and cultural ties, we can only hope that the leaders in Washington won't make the same mistakes that our socialist and liberal politicians did.
Let's break that down:
Refugees are bad because:
1. There was a riot in an immigrant suburb of Stockholm. Sounds bad, but consider they've had similar issues before the refugee influx: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/world/europe/sweden-riots-fifth-night/index.html

2. "Islam has become Sweden's second-largest religion." So what?

3. "In Malmö, our third-largest city, Mohamed is the most common name for baby boys." Not exactly a scandal...

4. "An estimated 300 Swedish citizens with immigrant backgrounds have traveled to the Middle East to fight for Islamic State." Wouldn't that mean that swedish citizens are the bigger threat?

5. "Many are now returning to Sweden and are being welcomed back with open arms by our socialist government." Swedish citizens returning to sweden aren't refugees.

6. "In December 2010 we had our first suicide attack on Swedish soil," So, BEFORE the refugee influx...

7.  "Serious riots in 2013, involving many suburbs with large immigrant populations, lasted for almost a week." Again, before the refugees got there

8. "Gang violence is booming." Are these gangs of refugees? Source?

9. "Despite very strict firearm laws, gun violence is five times as common in Sweden, in total, as in the capital cities of our three Nordic neighbors combined." Again, no evidence is presented linking this to refugees.

It kind of goes on in that same vein. which is unsurprising given that the authors are leaders of a conservative/nationalist party in Sweden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats

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Re: Wall Street Journal: Trump was Right about Sweden's Immigration Problems
Reply #49
"He admitted it himself, dave. I take it you read your Leader's tweets?"

He did?
Yeah. He did.
no. Try again.

Vox said that trump got the story from a fox news piece, which is assumed to be a tucker carlson bit where he interviewed Ami Horowitz, who Vox identified as a documentary film maker (he is). Trump did tweet that he got that claim from a fox news segment, and that's the only segment that seems to even come close to lining up with the subject of his claims. 

What part are you denying?
1. That trump tweeted that his claim "was in reference to a story that was broadcast on @FoxNews concerning immigrants & Sweden."?
2. That it was some other, as yet unidentified fox peice on immigrants and sweden?
3. That The interview wasn't with Ami Horowitz?
4. That Ami Horowitz is not a documentary film maker?