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Messages - borealis

1

But mine is LOW labor.

Yours is HIGH labor.

:wave:
Really? How many hours per day do you work, and how many hours do I work? Or do you have another measure for work intensity? Do you for example know how much work goes into growing Jerusalem artichokes?
Beautiful example. Farms abandoned a century ago will still have completely untended healthy stands of Jerusalem artichokes, and they are imo a very tasty vegetable. It would not surprise me if there is a patch on Dave's property. But of course he doesn't need to know what grows there, so this Edenic food (free for the eating) is invisible to him.
2
And the reason mine is low labor is because I have a better understanding of ecosystem than you ... specifically, I understand the role of keystone species in ecosystems and how to manage them to enhance that ecosystems.

You apparently do not.

No you don't. You decide for yourself what species is a 'keystone' species and declare it so. That is not how it works. So quit saying you understand ecosystems. You don't.

You've repeatedly said you don't know and don't care what lives on your own property, let alone the surrounding lands. You cannot 'enhance' an ecosystem when you have no clue what already inhabits it.
4
My uncle had a very cranky cow that would chase you if you entered her field. As kids we were scared of her. I think she had sore feet, as she ran very awkwardly.
5
The Soap Opera / Re: FX Spamming
Bili, it's one quote post and all those threads have dropped back. It would be a pain tracking them down. I don't see the harm in leaving them?
6
Seriously, Dave, as I've suggested before, you might really make a go of a 'farm experience campground'. You could let people experience your preferred housing/tents, observe the animals, maybe interact with them, you could sell them milk and eggs or whatever, give them literature on how they could make their vacation experience a year round reality, etc.

Plus side for you would be a good income and perhaps finding some people who'd like the idea, or some modification thereof.
I agree.  This may be the way to go.
Seriously. Since your commute times to "the city" seem to me to be ...unusually optimistic... at best. The 2 cities that I know best: Vancouver, Canada and Sydney, Australia, contradict your commute time estimates by significant amounts. A 10-mile commute into either city's downtown core, for example, is easily in excess of 1 hour (maybe I happen to have the misfortune of being from places people actually want to live, as opposed to, say, Missouri). Which is why I cycle, since it takes about half the time that driving or "rapid transit" seems to take. And I still don't get why you favor depopulating cities over city-based food production. We've gone over the potential benefits of commercial-scale aquaponics, that could conceivably be installed on the rooves of many apartments and townhouse complexes, Why wouldn't you at least acknowledge the potential, which is huge. Bigly, even?

Farm-camping is cool also. You could market it as a "lifestyle getaway". No actual need to pol-pot entire counties.
Farm camping yes. Prolly will do this.

If someone can show me some successful city based farming I'll be all ears. I just don't know of any examples I would call successful. Even Will Allen's deal doesn't cut it in my opinion.
This was taken walking distance from my apartment. The foreground is rice, good number of trees you see are persimmon, lots of plots of pepper, squash, and onion around too. There's a few cows and chickens off camera to the right. We are walking distance from work, train, and supermarket. There is a outdoor market walking distance as well that gets in fish, seasonal produce, and various other stuff.

At one point in this series of threads, Dave was shown many examples of urban vegetable gardens, garden co-ops, etc. Pretty well every city has them, often in empty lots owned by the city and unused otherwise. England, of course, has its allotments. And there are farmers' markets everywhere.

Dave consistently claims that farm market produce is significantly more expensive than in the grocery store, which I suppose is possible in the US, given that country is known for having very cheap and plentiful food.

However, that isn't the case here, or in any Canadian farm market I've been in. Sure, you can buy gourmet sausages and high end home made cheeses, but meat and vegetables are definitely fresher and cheaper than in the grocery chain store.
8
[emails damitall's wife, links above post. sits back, watches for fireworks.]
9
This is my little patch as of a couple of weeks ago- I've added a few more pots since then, and while I'm going for ornamental stuff rather than feeding myself there's plenty of space to cram in all sorts of things. Look at it, and mentally swap the Magnolia for a fruit bush, the bamboo for runner beans, Heucheras for radishes, the bare looking pots with herbaceous perennials for carrots, etc, etc.
Nice space. :)

My experience with limited space gardening (I lived in cities for 18 years) was that the best things to plant were fruit and veg that were either expensive to buy or especially good fresh and that I personally really liked. So where I lived carrots weren't a good choice because farm fresh ones were cheap and easy to get, but tomatos were expensive and not very ripe. herbs are always a good choice for me. Your choices will be different.
Exactly.  Which is why I grow tomatoes and watermelon every year.  I did plant 50 lbs of potatoes this year in my wood chip garden so we will see how they do.  I'm thinking the amount of labor vs. food calorie ratio is gonna be too high for my liking.
Why? It's good exercise and not very hard work, and for weeks at a time it is no work at all - you're just letting the potato plants grow. Once in a while you rake or hoe the weeds out so they don't get too tall. You can even just mow between the rows if you space them wide enough. The green cover keeps the soil moist.
10
This is my little patch as of a couple of weeks ago- I've added a few more pots since then, and while I'm going for ornamental stuff rather than feeding myself there's plenty of space to cram in all sorts of things. Look at it, and mentally swap the Magnolia for a fruit bush, the bamboo for runner beans, Heucheras for radishes, the bare looking pots with herbaceous perennials for carrots, etc, etc.
Nice space. :)

My experience with limited space gardening (I lived in cities for 18 years) was that the best things to plant were fruit and veg that were either expensive to buy or especially good fresh and that I personally really liked. So where I lived carrots weren't a good choice because farm fresh ones were cheap and easy to get, but tomatos were expensive and not very ripe. herbs are always a good choice for me. Your choices will be different.
11
Seriously, Dave, as I've suggested before, you might really make a go of a 'farm experience campground'. You could let people experience your preferred housing/tents, observe the animals, maybe interact with them, you could sell them milk and eggs or whatever, give them literature on how they could make their vacation experience a year round reality, etc.

Plus side for you would be a good income and perhaps finding some people who'd like the idea, or some modification thereof.
12
Raised beds about two feet deep and a foot wide either side of a central path. Plenty of space for beans growing up canes, soft fruit along the back,  cut and come again lettuce, you can grow herbs on windowsills, maybe a couple of dustbins at the back for potatoes.

Hmmm. I might have a crack at growing tomatoes in my little outdoor space.
Tomatos are the best deal ever for home growing in big pots on my deck. There are hundreds of kinds and sizes, colours and flavours. Given our short growing season I've had best luck with transplants from a local greenhouse (as opposed to starting them in the house), as they already have good strong stems. I start putting them outside for the day in May, bringing them in at night until mid-June when risk of frost is over.

13
I agree that it would be nice if everyone would either grow their own food or "buy local" but the realities of the marketplace are that "buying local" is very expensive and most people won't do it.
Not everywhere. Everything I buy locally is cheaper than imported food. Maybe you should be protesting American agricultural subsidies.
14
I suspect Dave wishes he could go back in time and reconfigure both the thread title and a lot of his earliest posts. Since he can't he does a lot of clumsy gaslighting.

Dave, why is it so hard to just admit you were a bit euphoric and over-reached when you started the thread, but now you've decided to concentrate on a more achievable goal?
It's not euphoric at all.  World agriculture is in serious serious trouble ... and the only way I know how to fix it is to create a sustainable, duplicatable model.  Will I achieve such a model?  Don't know.  Will it be duplicated far and wide?  Again, I don't know.  But it certainly won't if I don't try.

What i sometime wonder is why is it so hard for you to stay on topic .... instead of wandering off into psychoanalyzing me?  Is it that you're not really that interested in sustainability and don't have much to contribute?
It's been explained to you many, many times that your ideas will not and cannot work in the vast majority of climate and land types.

'World' agriculture is not 'in serious, serious trouble'. The world produces more food than it ever did. Problems arise from poor practices, droughts, insufficient transport and distribution, poverty, and environmental issues.
Many, many people smarter and more knowledgeable than you are constantly working on ways to mitigate these problems.

Your proposed fixes aren't viable in most circumstances. Your fixation on raw milk is personal, it applies only to yourself and a small minority of other people. Most of humanity cannot and will not by choice derive most of their calories from raw milk.

I am very interested in sustainability and in the preservation of ecosystems and diversity. You offer a monoculture of domestic animals and domestic grasses. You have no interest in even your own ecosystem, are proud of not knowing what lives there or what your activities might be doing to it. That places you immediately in direct opposition to everything I know and support.

Of course I wonder about why you're so averse to common snse and knowledge. I'm not alone.
15
I suspect Dave wishes he could go back in time and reconfigure both the thread title and a lot of his earliest posts. Since he can't he does a lot of clumsy gaslighting.

Dave, why is it so hard to just admit you were a bit euphoric and over-reached when you started the thread, but now you've decided to concentrate on a more achievable goal?
16
How about this, Dave?

Is this another 'good thing' Trump has done?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39070164
17
Dave, what's your opinion on the DAPL*?

*Dakota Access Pipeline, in case you've been ignoring all references to it because you didn't recognise the acronym.
18
Someone should try to dissect the psychology of people who go straight for that kind of reality-challenged source, in severe denial of sanity and reason. You can't just say 'they're crazy', because most of them manage to get by every day, get up, look after themselves properly, hold down jobs, etc. But there they are, in the evenings, poring over the modern equivalent of grimoires and alchemists' journals.
Just remember that as a YEC, Dave's default position is that evidence-based sites must be wrong. I suspect there's a large element of nya nya nya going on with his automatic embrace of anything non-factual.

Well, that of course. But I've known non-YEC people who were just as deeply wedded to fantasy presented as fact.
19
http://www.newstarget.com/...
Quote
News Target publishes information that cannot be validated and that is anti scientific fact. The information provided should be regarded as speculative opinion or propaganda and cannot be substantiated by fact or evidence. It is among the most untrustworthy sources in the media.
... in other words, ideal fodder for gullible tools like Hawkins.
Someone should try to dissect the psychology of people who go straight for that kind of reality-challenged source, in severe denial of sanity and reason. You can't just say 'they're crazy', because most of them manage to get by every day, get up, look after themselves properly, hold down jobs, etc. But there they are, in the evenings, poring over the modern equivalent of grimoires and alchemists' journals.
20
"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."

^You, David Hawkins.
21
It would be better if his own party works towards getting him impeached, and there are plenty of rumours about that.
22
Many larger Canadian cities have large modern convention centres, (even Halifax is almost finished building a bigger replacement for the old one). I'm sure there's time to organise next years conferences in Canada.

I foresee a bit of a boom for those centres, since US participants can also get there easily.

Your loss, 'murikka.
23
The Soap Opera / Re: FX Spamming
No, he is not. He declared his protest finished and is presumably taking a break on his own terms.
24
Oh yeah?  OK ... just watch then.
We have been.
For years.
You keep moving back the target date for when you expect the first dozen or so households to sign on.

Meanwhile, for those interested in the possibility of actual (not fantasized) sustainable communities, I'd put my eggs in this basket:
Utopian off-grid Regen Village produces all of its own food and energy
... before considering the pipe dreams of some crackpot living in the woods, shitting in a bucket, and worshipping his Dear Leader who's all about extracting and burning as much fossil fuel as fast as possible.
Like Dave, though, they haven't actually built one yet:

Quote
They plan to start building these utopian communities this summer.
Very pretty pictures and sounds wonderful, but they literally have nothing built and there are no cost estimates that I can find.

http://www.regenvillages.com/
Oh, it would certainly be a gamble - putting one's eggs in either basket.
My only point is that I don't think the two gambles are equally advisable.
I quite agree. Regen villages looks well thought through and well designed, but I suspect the cost of owning and maintaining one of those homes will be prohibitive, at least for the immediate future.
25
Oh yeah?  OK ... just watch then.
We have been.
For years.
You keep moving back the target date for when you expect the first dozen or so households to sign on.

Meanwhile, for those interested in the possibility of actual (not fantasized) sustainable communities, I'd put my eggs in this basket:
Utopian off-grid Regen Village produces all of its own food and energy
... before considering the pipe dreams of some crackpot living in the woods, shitting in a bucket, and worshipping his Dear Leader who's all about extracting and burning as much fossil fuel as fast as possible.
Like Dave, though, they haven't actually built one yet:

Quote
They plan to start building these utopian communities this summer.
Very pretty pictures and sounds wonderful, but they literally have nothing built and there are no cost estimates that I can find.

http://www.regenvillages.com/