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Messages - borealis

1
He's done it before and yet here we are.  :unsure:
2
please pinch me and tell me I'm dreaming.  please tell me that Pingu did not actually employ the argument that "price didn't verify what those kids were eating at home."
Yep, that's what she said.

Do you have any evidence that he did?

No, I did NOT say that.  Dave is doing his usual dishonest trick of putting words in quotes to assign them to someone, when in fact he made them up.  I did NOT say those words.

Price claimed that the children's home diet remained the same (which seems unlikely to me - I have a larger lunch than usual, I generally don't eat as much when I get home).  But he does not say, in his book, what steps he took to ensure that this factor was kept constant, nor how he verified that it had been kept constant.

I did not say he did not verify it.  I just do not know whether, or how, he did so.
Jesus Christ. All Price is saying is that these kids were eating pretty much exclusively refined carbs at home and that they STILL were eating refined carbs but of course a bit less because of the large noon meal Price was feeding them. Good Lord.  Brain on Darwinism I suppose. This is not freaking rocket science.

It may not be rocket science, but I frankly don't trust Price to report on the children's home diet accurately. I'd bet there were components of their diet of which he was completely unaware, or simply felt were irrelevant. I don't doubt their nutrition was poor and too high in sugars and refined wheat products. But it is probably not the whole story.
3
This only confirms what I have suspected for a long time...

YOU suck at science.

Not me.
Yes, dave.
We know.
EVERYTHING confirms that.
In your mind.
It comes with the territory of being a raging narcissist.

And also a very confused person who regularly argues about things people have not said and in fact often invents out of whole cloth things 'people have said'.
4
Dave-like franoogling detected again:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/03/19/dietary-fat-and-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

Reading whole articles and looking at dissent as well as agreement re published papers is a wise use of resources.
5
Well I'm sure a genetically modified frankengoat could be designed to produce fish oil. I mean, we can make 'em produce spider silk in their milk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioSteel
6
Mafia / Re: Omelas Mafia Sign-ups
Raven has the best funky mechanics.

Better than this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU2LK8PwZ9I
7
Have I ever mentioned "100% grass fed beef"? Or "100% grass dairy"?

Why yes! I think I have!

Are you planning on raising them in the ocean, making them produce blubber, and eating them raw, skin and all? Because that's the only way you get them to mimic seal and whale meat.
8
Mafia / Re: Omelas Mafia Sign-ups
It's safe, the Gnome Who Must Not Be Named won't come here.
9
Pingu  do you understand that there are probably ZERO extant Inuit populations  subsisting exclusively on traditional diets?  They were already becoming westernized in Price's day. Are the studies you cite later than Price? Did they find any groups subsisting exclusively on traditional diets?  I seriously doubt that they did. Do you know?  if they did not, then these studies are worthless for the purpose of what we are discussing.

We can go back hundreds of years and find Inuit and Inuk and Chuckchi and other Arctic populations eating traditional diets. Those diets ran to about 50% raw sea mammal fat in winter.

You always ignore many factors in indigenous diets. You ignore the prevalence of sea mammals and fish. You ignore that the fat and skin, and often the meat and organs, including the brain, are eaten raw and sometimes fermented. You ignore the consumption of the rumen contents of caribou and muskox, and the crop contents of ptarmigan. You ignore the summer diet which includes berries, several roots and a couple important green plants, and seaweeds, some of which were stored for winter - there is even a traditional 'ice cream', akutaq, made by whipping together fats and crowberries. Inland clans traded with coastal people for whale and seal and fish. You ignore the warnings that eating rabbit and even any starved mammals will make people become sick and waste away from lack of fat. Inuit people will not eat a starving animal, even if they themselves are starving, as they know it will hasten their deaths.

You ignore evidence that Arctic peoples have lived there long enough to adapt. They have larger livers, for example. And despite all these adaptations, they still suffered from this dietary lifestyle, as do the Masai.

Your 'doubts' and skepticism are just bullshit you want to believe.

And your own proposed diet in no way resembles an Arctic diet - you are eating milk, the fat of which is different from that of sea mammals and fish. You are eating grass fed rabbit, with hardly any fat. Any meat you get, you cook it, which immediately changes the nutritional profile.

And it turns out that he didn't know why the fish thing matters.

Of course he didn't, and he'll 'forget' about it in future, just as he'll 'forget' that Arctic peoples eat much of their meat and fat raw or fermented, or that they eat rumen contents and seaweeds and berries, and that inland clans traded with coastal clans. He doesn't know that archaeologists have studied ancient Arctic peoples all around the Circle, their bones, their centuries old mummified bodies, their tools and weapons and boats and sleds, their trails and trade routes, even their ancient wars, which wiped out or drove away previous peoples who we know from their remains and tools and so on, as well as from oral history.

We know a lot about ancient peoples, but Dave will never read such findings because they often predate the Flood, and even when they are later, he can't explain to himself how they could possibly be Noah's descendants, so soon after Noah and fam settled down. There'd have to have been a prodigious number of children and they'd have had to trek North at a great rate, popping out massive numbers of babies all the way, evolving a dozen distinct phenotypes, engaging in a dozen wars, etc. etc.
10
Pingu  do you understand that there are probably ZERO extant Inuit populations  subsisting exclusively on traditional diets?  They were already becoming westernized in Price's day. Are the studies you cite later than Price? Did they find any groups subsisting exclusively on traditional diets?  I seriously doubt that they did. Do you know?  if they did not, then these studies are worthless for the purpose of what we are discussing.

We can go back hundreds of years and find Inuit and Inuk and Chuckchi and other Arctic populations eating traditional diets. Those diets ran to about 50% raw sea mammal fat in winter.

You always ignore many factors in indigenous diets. You ignore the prevalence of sea mammals and fish. You ignore that the fat and skin, and often the meat and organs, including the brain, are eaten raw and sometimes fermented. You ignore the consumption of the rumen contents of caribou and muskox, and the crop contents of ptarmigan. You ignore the summer diet which includes berries, several roots and a couple important green plants, and seaweeds, some of which were stored for winter - there is even a traditional 'ice cream', akutaq, made by whipping together fats and crowberries. Inland clans traded with coastal people for whale and seal and fish. You ignore the warnings that eating rabbit and even any starved mammals will make people become sick and waste away from lack of fat. Inuit people will not eat a starving animal, even if they themselves are starving, as they know it will hasten their deaths.

You ignore evidence that Arctic peoples have lived there long enough to adapt. They have larger livers, for example. And despite all these adaptations, they still suffered from this dietary lifestyle, as do the Masai.

Your 'doubts' and skepticism are just bullshit you want to believe.

And your own proposed diet in no way resembles an Arctic diet - you are eating milk, the fat of which is different from that of sea mammals and fish. You are eating grass fed rabbit, with hardly any fat. Any meat you get, you cook it, which immediately changes the nutritional profile.
11
Mafia / Re: Omelas Mafia Sign-ups
Am in whenever it starts. But it is fun to lynch ksen, so a wait is nbd.
12
Pahu is the most robotically brainwashed individual I've ever interacted with, and I've had a real life long term friendship with a person whose mind was eaten by the Divine Light Mission cult in1972 and who, as of six years ago, was still giving them most of her earnings while she and her child lived in poverty.
13
As a Jewish man, I really do not know what to make of this. Like 90% of the accused men so far are Jews. I dunno if it just happens to be that there are a lot of powerful Jewish men in the media and this is just a product of whichever men are in power will be shitbags or what, but I honestly can't help but feel there's something fucked up about this.

I suspect the first is the reality. Lots of powerful Jewish men in media, and that goes back to a few generations of probable community nepotism, where sons and sons-in-law were more likely to be aware of the industry, more likely to think they could work in it, and perhaps got a little help from relatives in the industry. This happens everywhere - the railroads used to be very good well paid jobs in this province, but you wouldn't get hired if you weren't related to or married into a family that was already established with the company. Half the local fishermen are either named 'Babcock' or are married to a 'Babcock', or their grandparent wa a 'Babcock'.

OTOH, my mother was really uncomfortable when I started dating a Jewish guy. I was appalled, since I didn't think she had those kinds of prejudices, but it turned out the boy's father had gotten my mother's cousin pregnant in 1935 and had abandoned her, so it was a 'sins of the father' prejudice, not his Jewishness. Maybe older Jewish guys have habitually been a little more careless with young gentile women, seeing as their mothers didn't want them to marry those girls. Prejudice flows in many directions and from many cultural founts.

Yes, the fact that your mom judged an entire ethnic group on the actions of one man was not at all due to bigotry, I'm sure.

Way to completely misread what I wrote. She judged one man's son on the actions of his father, not on the basis of his ethnicity or religion, dumbass. She was fine with the other Jewish guys I dated later. One of them was even American.  :awgee:
14
Yeah, that's why having the workers travel is better for the families and communities.
Fucking hell.  Okay - of the people who are highly recommending that the worker in the family should just travel and spend large amounts of time away from their family and community... have any of you actually done that for more than a week or two?  On either side of it - as the traveler or the person who stays at home?  Because it is seriously exhausting and really tough on relationships... and it seems to be being put forth as a viable and reasonable solution in a pretty cavalier fashion.

The money comes back to the community and the family isn't disrupted by a move to a strange place where they may not even stay long.
They are disrupted by having an important member of the family absent over an extended period of time.

These mega projects are mostly finite - it takes a few months or years to complete initial phases, and following phases may need far fewer workers. Having a home community to return to is important for stability. Many of these jobs are two weeks on, one week off, with the employer paying for travel, Some have longer stints, often because it's a smaller job, or very time constrained.
It's a lot of travel and strain on families and relationships, combined with uncertainty for the long term since they're mostly temporary jobs. 

Literally thousands of people live this way, and it works well for families. The people it doesn't work well for are younger single workers who don't save any money and just buy expensive shit, party, gamble, drink and drug like idiots in their time off.
Are you sure it works well?  Are you sure those are the only people it doesn't work well for?  Because when my spouse was deployed and I was home by myself, it was enormously sucky.  And when I was working at a consulting firm traveling a lot, it was enormously sucky.  Pretty much anyone with a family is likely to find this pretty fucking sucky.


My husband and I have lived this way for over twenty years. Many of our friends live this way. Very large numbers of people in this province live this way. In most cases it is two or three weeks away and one week at home, but it can be longer depending on the job.

This isn't new - people in this province have travelled away from home to make a living since the 1800s, when girls as young as 14 went to 'the Boston States' to work as maids, and men have always been away months at a time as fishermen, or in the woods for weeks or entire seasons.

It is seriously a way of life that can be accommodated with a little adjustment. If your relationship is strained by it, maybe you need to work out why that is and how you can resolve the issues.

Plenty families don't find it 'sucky' at all. Quite a few genuinely like it - it gives both partners breathing space, for one thing. It certainly is a lot better than having families driven into poverty and/or out of their homes because the wage earner with the most earning potential is lying on the couch in front of the TV for months on end.
15
Pingu, you should see some of the coastal Acadian land holdings here. Originally they were huge farms and forests that fronted on the shore. Acadians had large families, and when it came time for sons to start heir own farms, the land was divided from shore inland, so each would have field, forest and shoreline. Over time and generations the effect is very long skinny pieces of land.
16
As a Jewish man, I really do not know what to make of this. Like 90% of the accused men so far are Jews. I dunno if it just happens to be that there are a lot of powerful Jewish men in the media and this is just a product of whichever men are in power will be shitbags or what, but I honestly can't help but feel there's something fucked up about this.

I suspect the first is the reality. Lots of powerful Jewish men in media, and that goes back to a few generations of probable community nepotism, where sons and sons-in-law were more likely to be aware of the industry, more likely to think they could work in it, and perhaps got a little help from relatives in the industry. This happens everywhere - the railroads used to be very good well paid jobs in this province, but you wouldn't get hired if you weren't related to or married into a family that was already established with the company. Half the local fishermen are either named 'Babcock' or are married to a 'Babcock', or their grandparent wa a 'Babcock'.

OTOH, my mother was really uncomfortable when I started dating a Jewish guy. I was appalled, since I didn't think she had those kinds of prejudices, but it turned out the boy's father had gotten my mother's cousin pregnant in 1935 and had abandoned her, so it was a 'sins of the father' prejudice, not his Jewishness. Maybe older Jewish guys have habitually been a little more careless with young gentile women, seeing as their mothers didn't want them to marry those girls. Prejudice flows in many directions and from many cultural founts.
17


Already way ahead of you bro. I have that spreadsheet in my head but there's no point in publishing it to this crowd. And also it will change.  The way I'm building this thing is similar to the way you imagine that life evolved.

Hahaha - because life evolved in squares and rectangles.

No ... triangles.


Nevertheless, for the umpteenth time, Dave. why can't you visualise a community layout not based on rectangles or triangles? Both shapes have their uses, but they are not organic at all, especially when deciding where people live. Consider that most rural communities grow organically, often around or along a feature of terrain, such as a watercourse or shoreline, or in relation to important features within the community, such as a church or other community centre.
The triangles was a joke because of my little A-frames.

I DO visualize very curvy subdivisions but I'm not going to go to the trouble of drawing them that way just for the purpose of studying the transport issue which is what Pingu is all hot and bothered about.
[/quote]

Quote
Dave, it isn't just about 'curvy', the shape of your community and how you lay it out affects the transportation issue. Even within straight lines. For example, longer truncated triangle shaped lots converging on a shorter piece of road, each pair of lots can also share a single driveway, saving an entire lost piece of land.  You've saved land through having half the number of driveways, and through needing way less road frontage, therefore shorter lengths of road.
18


Already way ahead of you bro. I have that spreadsheet in my head but there's no point in publishing it to this crowd. And also it will change.  The way I'm building this thing is similar to the way you imagine that life evolved.

Hahaha - because life evolved in squares and rectangles.

No ... triangles.
[/quote]

Nevertheless, for the umpteenth time, Dave. why can't you visualise a community layout not based on rectangles or triangles? Both shapes have their uses, but they are not organic at all, especially when deciding where people live. Consider that most rural communities grow organically, often around or along a feature of terrain, such as a watercourse or shoreline, or in relation to important features within the community, such as a church or other community centre.
19
Or get a smaller stove.

We have a tiny one in our boat.

There's lots of choice in little wood stoves. Friends had a tiny Scandinavian enamelled cast iron stove that heated their small house very well. Sometimes, depending on your wood source, it's hard to get wood cut to a small enough size.
20
Side note for Borealis ...

 Thank you VERY MUCH for your advice on woodstoves!  last year I really wasn't having much fun with my woodstove because quite often I could not get a very hot fire and there were other aspects that I didn't understand.  this year, thanks to the small changes I made in response to your advice, I'm having a blast with it!  my flue pipe is short and straight. My wood is dry, because I always make sure and gather in advance of rains. It also helps that I now have two full length 9 foot wide porch roofs.  The back porch is excellent for stacking wood.  thanks to you, I now also understand the concept of burning a very hot fire for quite a while to build up some serious heat and a good bed of coals, then turning the damper down while I am gone.  it's also surprising to me how much heat is stored in my brick floor and actually even in my straw bale walls. You guys may laugh at my idea that my straw bale walls serve both as thermal mass and insulation, but I think it's true.

 The glass front on the stove is just beautiful as well and then of course it's always great standing right by a woodstove and feeling the intense heat on your body.  Plus the smell of a woodstove is just incomparable!

 One thing has dawned on me  recently that has caused me to reconsider the urgency of sealing up all my walls.  in fact I am now reconsidering - thinking that a leaky house might actually be a benefit.  why am I thinking this? Well for one thing, it appears  that there is a certain minimum amount of wood that you can burn in a small woodstove  like mine over the course of a winter  in order to achieve a certain critical mass of hot coals and so forth.  it's not like you can say "well I have a really tight house so I will only burn my woodstove for one hour tonight" because if you did that then you would not achieve that critical mass of hot coals.  also a leaky house is a healthy house from an air quality perspective.

Thoughts?



I'm glad the advice helped. Have you moved your chimney yet? It really has to be ABOVE your roof peak for both efficiency and safety. Seriously, that chimney photo gave me a mental heart attack.

Re having a drafty home - it's probably not ideal. I get your point, but you're likely better off occasionally opening a window or door if it gets too hot rather than living with a too leaky home.
21


Already way ahead of you bro. I have that spreadsheet in my head but there's no point in publishing it to this crowd. And also it will change.  The way I'm building this thing is similar to the way you imagine that life evolved.
[/quote]

Hahaha - because life evolved in squares and rectangles.
22
Mafia / Re: Mafia mafia day 6
Sweet dreams!
23
Mafia / Re: Mafia mafia day 6
Yes, we're more used to it now we're fine with it please.  :loveeyes:
24
Pingu and Dave Godfrey seem to be getting this stuff.  You other people ... wow.

Wow indeed. Dave, it doesn't make any sense when you just make shit up. Imaginary crops, imaginary energy numbers, imaginary 'data' just produces WRONG results and tells us nothing.

Also, Missouri. No idea what slaves ate. Wow.
25
No, DL. I truly believe it is a bad idea to follow personalities. I read very widely and have since I learned to read. Most of the people you refer to are men, and ime, most of them have at least some beliefs that collide with mine.

Can you link me to something written? I can't currently watch videos and don't like them much anyway.

Apologies, I cannot do better than your own use of google.

Bill does have transcripts though. This site does not work well for me but might be ok for your system.

www.hiddenmeanings.com

Regards
DL




I can use the site. It is terribly organised and every third or fourth thing you look at is a beggar's bowl asking for monetary support

What attracts you to this person's views? I haven't looked at a lot of it, but it appears to be a collection of New Age truisms and photos cadged from all over the internet. Much of it is very trite, and some of it sounds distressingly like the material used by Divine Light Mission (afterwards Elan Vital), an exploitive Indian cult that swept North America and Britain in the 70s. What am I missing, that you see?

His esoteric views and how he interprets scriptures from that esoteric and allegorical POV.

Not all of them but most of the ones that I have seen him speak about on you tube. A pity you cannot view those.

Regards
DL


Okay.

No, DL. I truly believe it is a bad idea to follow personalities. I read very widely and have since I learned to read. Most of the people you refer to are men, and ime, most of them have at least some beliefs that collide with mine.

Can you link me to something written? I can't currently watch videos and don't like them much anyway.

Apologies, I cannot do better than your own use of google.

Bill does have transcripts though. This site does not work well for me but might be ok for your system.

www.hiddenmeanings.com

Regards
DL




I can use the site. It is terribly organised and every third or fourth thing you look at is a beggar's bowl asking for monetary support

What attracts you to this person's views? I haven't looked at a lot of it, but it appears to be a collection of New Age truisms and photos cadged from all over the internet. Much of it is very trite, and some of it sounds distressingly like the material used by Divine Light Mission (afterwards Elan Vital), an exploitive Indian cult that swept North America and Britain in the 70s. What am I missing, that you see?

His esoteric views and how he interprets scriptures from that esoteric and allegorical POV.

Not all of them but most of the ones that I have seen him speak about on you tube. A pity you cannot view those.

Regards
DL


Okay, I've managed to skim several videos. I think his interpretations are no worse than many others. I'd prefer he was a bit more etymologically rigorous and didn't wander off into what I consider forced numerology.

I do understand how his views might appeal to someone who starts out with a view of the Bible as inerrantly historic when the allegory is not blatantly obvious.

But I don't think the Bible is entirely allegorical or entirely about spirituality. There are bits of history, bits of legend, campfire folklore, songs, stories taken from other cultures, tragedy, politics, humour, cultural information, and a lot of very human stories mixed in with the set of spiritual memes that permeate the whole. Very much what one would expect from a cobbled together collection of very old texts.

Consider the story of Absalom, banished from the king's city and anxious to get back there and be in the king's good books again. He can't go there himself, so he pesters his brother, a farmer busy with harvest, to go and petition for him. His brother puts it off until Absalom is so frustrated that he sets his brother's fields on fire. His brother comes to him from his burning crops and asks what he did that for. At which point Absalom repeats his request and his brother heads out to do it.

Now I could do a Donahue on that story and make it all about spirituality, how we put off important spiritual acts in favour of petty earthly concerns and so on.

But I think this is a small story fragment in the midst of a jumbled very old political story that is meant to be humourous, to describe a relationship between brothers. Consider being told this story, and the storyteller acting out Absalom's frustrated pacing, his setting the fires, the exasperation of his brother and his capitulation to his crazy brother Absalom's political ambitions. It would be funny.

Because there have always been storytellers, in every age and every culture. And while stories may be co-opted by priests and preachers, the storytellers' purposes were probably much more directed by their human nature rather than their urge to present unfathomable spiritual messages full of numerical puzzles and word derivations.

Also, Donahue is completely wrong about the derivation of Yeshua; he could have looked it up and discovered its etymological origins in ten minutes and left the Greeks out of it after that.