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  • TalkRational: Not buying the whole "poor discriminated against atheist" meme

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1
WTF? Is that real?

It is real, and apparently hilariously bad. By trying to remove women from roles of any importance, they've also destroyed most of the male characters' arcs.

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2018/01/15/erasing-women-from-media/
Apologies if you don't like Pharyngula, but PZ summarises it nicely.
2
Games / Re: Image Association
Last post by MikeS -
 :whyyou:  ST
Original: Spoiler (click to show/hide)

3
Games / Re: Image Association
Last post by SkepticTank -
4
Honestly I am beginning to wonder if this is going to partially rehabilitate the prequels as well.
Nothing can rehabilitate the prequels ....

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ok so consider this.

Humans of the New Republic colonized Naboo, which was already occupied by a sentient species. Humans treated that species like shit and did not engage in respectful dialogue with them. Meanwhile, the Republic initiates a conflict with the shipping company which provides service in that part of the galaxy by imposing tarriffs on shipping (which I assume Naboo did not want to pay in raised prices of goods) and then sending an armed delegation to "resolve" the conflict. The shipping company responds by implementing a work action by blockading shipping to and from the planet and using armed force to deter scabs brought in by the Republic.

Rather than negotiate a peaceful settlement, the human government of Naboo (currently run by a semi-electoral child aristocracy....what?) ends up recruiting an incompetent member of the indigenous species (who may or may not have been a saboteur and who was an exile from his people because of that) and uses him to gain knowledge of the indigenous species's politics in order to manipulate them into marching en masse against the shipping company's military hardware, resulting in huge losses with no actual purpose, because the space battle was the only battle of any importance. The human colony then uses this "victory" to push this saboteur and nitwit into a position of power where he could "represent" the indigenous species while actually being completely under the thumb of the human politicians. Eventually, that relationship is exploited in order to justify the elimination of democratic rule in the Republic more generally.

In retrospect, the reason the prequel movies make little narrative sense is that the Republic and the Jedi Order are actually the villains.
See,
This is like watching Dune the Movie before reading Dune the books.

There is no way you would pick up the narrative by watching a sweaty Sting fight with a knife.

yeah but I am the Kwisatz Haderach.
5
Games / Re: Image Association
Last post by Valor -
6
WTF? Is that real?
7
I never had the thought "Ah this bunch are heathens... they will high five me for woo hooing."

The only thought I had was ...

"Bingo. Borealis is full of s*** about Maasai not living very long. Here's an old geezer that is sprightly enough to marry a young hottie ... Woohoo!"

That's honestly the only thought I had.

And you were promptly schooled on what the word 'average' means, so it was a dumb response to begin with. You're so desperate to 'prove borealis is full of shit' that you put yourself in these really awkward situations.

Besides which, most 'old geezers', provided they haven't got a serious medical condition that interferes with their plumbing, are 'sprightly enough' to have sexual intercourse. Have you not heard about the unfortunate prevalence of STDs in senior housing? They aren't catching gonorrhea from toilet seats.

Also the whole concept is disgusting. 'Young hotties' - Jesus Christ Dave, why the hell would you use that term to describe a 15 year old girl?
Not to put too fine a point on this, but I suspect he used the term because it's culturally appropriate in his culture. It's easy to forget sometimes that we are in the middle of a massive cultural upheaval where the old order is being overturned and no one exactly knows what the new order will look like yet. The principle of equity which is the hallmark of the rising tide is intimately tied to the idea of privilege which is a very difficult concept for people to understand if they haven't been exposed to it and if they happen to enjoy that privilege. I have a lot of academic knowledge (and have taught it as part of a curriculum to college students) and significant real-world experience using the concept in the contexts of community engagement and homeless youth and I still have to shut up and let my judgments lie dormant in lots of cases. My defaults are often from the old order. I don't rightly know where the lines are any more in many cases. It's hard to square the massive positive impact that, say, Bill Cosby had on the cause of civil rights, with his behavior towards women. It makes it a little hard for me to be as upset as some people get over his behavior even though his behavior was disturbingly twisted and objectively horrible. It's easier to not be offended at, say Garrison Kiellor or Al Franken because their transgressions weren't, say, 30 or 40 actual rapes. But also because we are all significantly richer for their contributions. I don't know who Weinstein is or what movies he made so I don't know what we would lose if his contributions were erased from the public record, but I do know in Keillor's case and it's a tragedy IMO. Firing someone is one thing but erasing a history that contributes to intellectual and maybe even spiritual growth is quite another. It's easy for some people to go there. Not for all. Even though I am versed in the new ethics, my conditioning happened in a very different time and there are plenty of occasions where I recognize that.

While there are plenty of people who seem to have a very solid grasp of the new ethics, there are also plenty of people who are trying but it still doesn't come naturally. Then there are people who straight up resist. They are loathe to relinquish the power of their privilege especially since it isn't visible to those who are exercising it. It's hard for the out of work poor southern white kkk xian dumbfuck to see that they are willing to use violence only to ensure that someone else is at the actual bottom of the totem pole. They lap up the stupid shit their masters feed them because they are being assured that someone else will never be able to pass them on the economic totem pole. That kind of existence barely qualifies for an example of freewill, IMO. Products of place and time with no concept of how to go about adapting to new circumstances or maybe even no concept that adaptation is useful, believing instead that enough rage will force the world to remain as it was when norms were established.

Norms are incredibly powerful things. Our values determine our behavior to such a massive extent that the most critical skill humans have is the ability to examine and assess our own personal values in the context of decisions we make. The inability to do that is the most cruel of disabilities because always on the horizon is an external social pressure suggesting that the sufferer is missing something but with actually no tools available to even assess the question because the 'thing' the individual is missing has a different 'thing' in its place.

Many, maybe most, men are constantly dealing with conflicting signals from the brain and the balls. How we deal with that conflict has a tremendous amount to do with how we learn to deal with it. It is not the sort of thing that is easy to sit down and think deeply on and arrive at a universal answer completely independently. We have to learn the boundary conditions. It helps if we begin with, it's not appropriate to make another person do anything they don't want to for personal gratification. If that one tries to slip in there very far down the line, it's already missed the point where an individual establishes the priorities and types of personal gratifications and so becomes secondary to what has already been established regarding those priorities. One of the perqs to being a rock star was culturally established to be unlimited sex, drugs, and rock and roll. The ends to which men used to assume power naturally be put include tons of sex with whatever kinks they might have developed over time. It takes an entirely new cultural background to make locker-room talk unacceptable in a locker-room. I do think we are moving that way though. But it's not surprising to see Dave make the formulaic 1970's red-piller type responses because that was the value structure he absorbed and his ability to examine his own values is notoriously nonexistent. He values women as individuals but has a separate box for women as objects for men to enjoy. Of course, he wants to believe that they enjoy it too because otherwise he'd have to examine his beliefs. But fortunately he doesn't have to because he just assumes that women mostly enjoy the role of whore and it's the line that divides right from wrong when women don't want to act the role of whores. Which makes severe complication in a marriage situation I'd guess. It's a defect not to want to put out at whatever your husband commands. That's where those 'at what point did the value get assimilated' situations become clear. Is the husband master? Does that come first?

I wrote this big long post because I have been thinking about the cultural divide a lot lately. A relative  supports Trump just as mindlessly and just as cluelessly as Dave does and I'm having some trouble squaring the fact that the mindset cannot even see that it is derivative of and enabling of actual Nazi ideology with the fact that the mindset is so horrible. I want to smash it like a cockroach, but I also want to leave idiots alone since they already have enough hardship in their worlds. There is no difficulty marginalizing their beliefs and values, it's easy to just say I'm not interested in Nazi propaganda, but it's hard to engage with it in a humane way and I have to remind myself that the changes are so dramatic that it's possible to feel some empathy for those who may enable horrors through pure ignorance. If humanity snuffs itself, it makes no difference if I was pissed off at those who contributed to the specific causes.

Ethics really are situational in some aspects. We may abhor the idea of infanticide and condemn cultural traditions that accepted it as justifiable, but the alternative was doubtlessly worse in some distant time or place. Child brides are horrible things. But starvation is too. Being a Nazi enabler/sympathizer (excuse me, 'the least racist people anyone's ever seen') in the US though, well, where and what is the appropriate response to it?

Worse, it's being promulgated through propaganda pitching it as an existential crisis while Wall Street keeps taking steep rents and laughing at how easy divide and conquer is. That gets easier to do when you control the reins of government and can actually make life an existential crises for the weakest group. That primes the fearful and inoculates them against the tools needed for adaptation. If you can stunt adaptive behavior, you can control the behavior of individuals easily by making the logical case for actions that certain values demand.

Wow. That's my first WoT in years.

ETA2: It's hard for me to be grateful enough for my good fortune of having really strong women for grandmothers, mother, wife, and daughters.
8
Ok this is just stupid.

Stupid and typical dumb rich man gesture: "Haha I'm so cool."

It's not about "cool".  The motivation was what was the craziest thing they could put on the rocket.  The car is little more than .1% of the cost of the launch.
10
Oh boy here we go again on a week-long self-righteous preaching rant.

Then quit trying to justify your gross written attitude towards young girls, Dave. You're coming across as a real creep, and believe it or not, no one here wants to believe that's the real Dave Hawkins. It's revolting.

Do you see anyone anywhere on TR drooling over really young girls? No, you don't. You're the exception here.