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Topic: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia) (Read 10527 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • VoxRat
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #25
...  a guy named Moishe Carmeli looked into that placeholder and apparently eliminated the need for it.
Bluffy, you are using the formula for a circle, not an ellipse.
The guy who fails at high school geometry thinks he's in a position to judge cosmological theories!  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: 

Quote
Harnett gives a nice summary of this. And yes I know that Hartnett  appears to be mistaken about some inferences based on Carmeli's work. I get that too. But that is unrelated to the issue of dark matter and dark energy itself.
How the hell would you know that?  :dunno:
  • Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 11:12:33 AM by VoxRat

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #26
 Here is Carmeli on dark matter in his own words (CERN  Paper)

https://cds.cern.ch/record/307661/files/9607142.pdf

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #27
Here is Carmeli on dark matter in his own words (CERN  Paper)

https://cds.cern.ch/record/307661/files/9607142.pdf
::) as if you understand one word of that ::)

Quote from: Dave Hawkins;2613996
... unless I hear you present it simply in your own words, then I'm fairly certain that you don't even understand what you are regurgitating. 

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #28
Here is Carmeli on dark matter in his own words (CERN  Paper)

https://cds.cern.ch/record/307661/files/9607142.pdf
what do you think that says?
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #29
"Carmeli's theory has not caught on outside of YEC circles."

Really?

Did you actually check? Or did you just pull that one out of your ass?

I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times.  Yes I know that you think that means nothing, but to us in the real world it does mean something.

Here is a recent paper citing his work and - it appears to me - to agree that dark matter is not real.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1140/epjc/s10052-012-2122-y

How many more do you think I could find?

I'm a pretty good Googler you know.

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #30
Here is Carmeli on dark matter in his own words (CERN  Paper)

https://cds.cern.ch/record/307661/files/9607142.pdf
what do you think that says?
It says that dark matter is bullshit.

 But a little more politely than that.

 Read the paragraph just prior to "acknowledgments."

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #31
Why does he think it is bullshit?
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #32
"Carmeli's theory has not caught on outside of YEC circles."

Really?
Yes.

Quote
Did you actually check?
Yes.

Quote
I'm a pretty good Googler you know.
I know that you think you are.
But (a) you're wrong, and (b) I don't really have that much respect for "good Googlers", per se,  if what they do is google up masses of information they don't bother to read, let alone understand.
  • Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 11:56:14 AM by VoxRat

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #33
On a side note, does gravity seem to affect the geometry of expansion? This is probably a question for photon.
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #34
I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times. 
Oh? What theory is that?
What search terms did you use?
Because Google Scholar says the article you cited, was cited 24 times.

(a) not a lot over the course of 18 years.
(b) Carmeli himself and your YEC buddy Hartnett account for  most of those citations; there are only a half dozen or so separate groups citing it
(c) citing a paper does not necessarily mean accepting its conclusions.

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #35
"Carmeli's theory has not caught on outside of YEC circles."

Really?

Did you actually check? Or did you just pull that one out of your ass?

I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times.  Yes I know that you think that means nothing, but to us in the real world it does mean something.
And how many of those citations are disagreeing with Carmeli pray tell?
Why do I bother?

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #36
Here is Carmeli on dark matter in his own words (CERN  Paper)

https://cds.cern.ch/record/307661/files/9607142.pdf
what do you think that says?
It says that dark matter is bullshit.

 But a little more politely than that.

 Read the paragraph just prior to "acknowledgments."
"Appears to be" is not anywhere nearly as forceful as "is bullshit". The former you can easily back away from, the latter draws a red line and triple-dog-dares you to step over it.  Yeah, he's slipping in the dagger, but somewhat tentatively.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #37
I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times. 
Oh? What theory is that?
What search terms did you use?
Because Google Scholar says the article you cited, was cited 24 times.

(a) not a lot over the course of 18 years.
(b) Carmeli himself and your YEC buddy Hartnett account for  most of those citations; there are only a half dozen or so separate groups citing it
(c) citing a paper does not necessarily mean accepting its conclusions.
Cited 76 times ...  Look it up

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1003651222960

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #38
I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times. 
Oh? What theory is that?
What search terms did you use?
Because Google Scholar says the article you cited, was cited 24 times.

(a) not a lot over the course of 18 years.
(b) Carmeli himself and your YEC buddy Hartnett account for  most of those citations; there are only a half dozen or so separate groups citing it
(c) citing a paper does not necessarily mean accepting its conclusions.
Cited 76 times ...  Look it up

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1003651222960
I see. A different paper of Carmeli's  - one that never mentions dark matter  - was cited 76 times.
What does that have to do with this discussion?
  • Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 03:18:12 PM by VoxRat

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #39
Bluffy can't help but make a fool of himself. He just can't.
Are we there yet?

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #40
I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times. 
Oh? What theory is that?
What search terms did you use?
Because Google Scholar says the article you cited, was cited 24 times.

(a) not a lot over the course of 18 years.
(b) Carmeli himself and your YEC buddy Hartnett account for  most of those citations; there are only a half dozen or so separate groups citing it
(c) citing a paper does not necessarily mean accepting its conclusions.
Cited 76 times ...  Look it up

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1003651222960
I see. A different paper of Carmeli's  - one that never mentions dark matter  - was cited 76 times.
What does that have to do with this discussion?
It's the paper where he presents his theory. And I can't read the paper so I don't know if dark matter is mentioned in there or not, or if that was a later development.

 The point of me posting it was to prove to you that it's not just young earth creationists that are interested in his theory as you said.

Which means that you are full of shit as usual.

Which brings disrepute up on all people with PhD's.
  • Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 05:17:14 PM by Dave Hawkins

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #41
Where did you find the reference?
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #42
Running from the topic already, I see.

No mention of Galileo or Copernicus. A third hand claim about the ancients and Newton. Never to be mentioned again.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #43
C'est la vie
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #44
On a side note, does gravity seem to affect the geometry of expansion? This is probably a question for photon.

Gravity IS the geometry of spacetime. Gravity should slow the expansion rate of the universe; increasing matter density increases the curvature of spacetime and all things being equal should lead to contraction. The matter density of the universe as measured seems to put the universe walking a fine line between expansion forever and eventual collapse. But when the expansion itself is measured we find the universe is expanding, and not slowing down as gravity might indicate, rather it is accelerating as it expands.

So the fundamental question is why (or how) this is occuring.

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #45
I'm pretty sure Galileo, Copernicus, and Newton did not examine this problem, nor did they have the Wisdom of the Ancients to help guide them.


Dark energy, to me, unlike dark matter whose effect and presence has been measured in recent years even if we don't know exactly what it is among many proposed candidates, seems to be a good, bonafide, kickass mystery. It is a true WTF moment in cosmology, and unfortunately shares the same "dark" adjective.

But what is very likely to be true, is that not only will YEC's not help in solving the problem, they make things worse through pseudoscientific ignorance.




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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #46
But with the torsion of spacetime as an alternative to both dark matter and dark energy, I have to say, I don't know. Mostly because I have a difficult time grokking those GR-modification papers.

But with Dave's high-speed mind, he should have no trouble with them.

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #47
On a side note, does gravity seem to affect the geometry of expansion? This is probably a question for photon.

Gravity IS the geometry of spacetime. Gravity should slow the expansion rate of the universe; increasing matter density increases the curvature of spacetime and all things being equal should lead to contraction. The matter density of the universe as measured seems to put the universe walking a fine line between expansion forever and eventual collapse. But when the expansion itself is measured we find the universe is expanding, and not slowing down as gravity might indicate, rather it is accelerating as it expands.

So the fundamental question is why (or how) this is occuring.
I asked the question wrong. I meant, does space seem to expand at different rates depending on the proximity of massive objects?
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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #48
Where did you find the reference?
Cool thing called Google scholar.  Have you heard of it?

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Re: Newton, Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were RE-Discovering Ancient Knowledge (Prisca Sapientia)
Reply #49
I went to Google scholar and found his theory cited 76 times. 
Oh? What theory is that?
What search terms did you use?
Because Google Scholar says the article you cited, was cited 24 times.

(a) not a lot over the course of 18 years.
(b) Carmeli himself and your YEC buddy Hartnett account for  most of those citations; there are only a half dozen or so separate groups citing it
(c) citing a paper does not necessarily mean accepting its conclusions.
Cited 76 times ...  Look it up

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1003651222960
I see. A different paper of Carmeli's  - one that never mentions dark matter  - was cited 76 times.
What does that have to do with this discussion?
It's the paper where he presents his theory. And I can't read the paper so I don't know if dark matter is mentioned in there or not
It's not.
 
Quote
The point of me posting it was to prove to you that it's not just young earth creationists that are interested in his theory as you said.
I was talking specifically about the dark matter contentions.
Obviously.

Quote
Which means that you are full of shit as usual.

Which brings disrepute up on all people with PhD's.
Poor dave...
You should really seek professional help about that bitter, soul-crushing science envy of yours.  :(