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Messages - teeming brown mass

I have also traditionally been a lot more sympathetic towards rural America until they collectively voted to hurt people I love.
That does make it tough. And Trump is affecting people in terrible ways across the board. There comes a point when burning it down and starting over can seem like the only path forward. That is a trip we would like to avoid though because that's also what Tim McVeigh thought.

It's not even about burning it down. It takes no active ill will to let white rural america poison themselves with mine runoff and fentanyl.
Not really because I'm not saying don't prosecute it. I'm saying that the current system is not doing its job and better non-partisan enforcement tools need to be established. I'm also saying that a shame-and-resignation informal system will not work when one party has no shame and is willing to endorse a pedophile to push forward tax cuts and healthcare repeal. Furthermore, the shame-and-resignation system PLUS the hiding-behind-settlements system is ripe for political gaming.

In other words, the Weinstein approach is not sustainable in the long term. We need to build a better system, and we need that system to be robust to political gaming, racism, and so on. Otherwise, this will be weaponized by people who are seeking to exploit the left against itself.
I have also traditionally been a lot more sympathetic towards rural America until they collectively voted to hurt people I love.
The scary thing is that teeth isn't alone in his "genocide the interior" approach to adult life.

My position is slightly more nuanced. It involves not putting so much effort into saving rural America from its own bad decisions.
Don't worry, guys, this will all be over soon.
how can it be fiction when Pandora is deffo a replicant
yeah again, I don't doubt that this is real. But it's certainly interesting that somehow this information was being distributed by alt-right Trumpists before the storybroke.
I'm starting to think Democrats are suicidal.

I'm starting to wish you were suicidal
You've always wished that.  You're a pretty remarkably uncharitable human.

only to you, pando
It's nice that you can rationalize your assholishness so you don't have to face the fact that you're a sucky human being.  It's gotta help you feel better about yourself.

yo pandora, make this your sig:

So an account linked to the Conyers leak may be a Russian trollbot:

Interestingly, Conyers has been one of the strongest advocates of the Russia investigation, along with a certain Senator Al Franken.
With Franken, I doubt there are criminal charges beyond a misdemeanor. There's a reason that those sorts of charges are up to the victim.
you think Conyers ever ordered a pizza?
so it's reasonable to say that ability to show value to the lords of industry should not be the sole qualification for whether a way of life should be preserved, but that's a smokescreen when the issue is that coal miners are unwilling to seek alternate career paths that will help them support their current way of life.
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
So who is up in 2018?
John Conyers previously settled a wrongful dismissal case involving sexual harassment:

e documents were first provided to BuzzFeed News by Mike Cernovich, the men's rights figure turned pro-Trump media activist who propagated a number of false conspiracy theories including the "Pizzagate" conspiracy.

IOW, what we're seeing is a targeted release of documents associated with Democrats by Trumpists.
I for one appreciate the irony in the fact that TR Poster Most Likely to Fail the Voigt-Kampff Test is complaining about the lack of wildlife in cities.
I'm starting to think Democrats are suicidal.

I'm starting to wish you were suicidal
You've always wished that.  You're a pretty remarkably uncharitable human.

only to you, pando
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
They won't lose enough seats in the House to lose control there. Gaining in the senate is all they need to pass their full agenda because the last few major votes have been one-vote affairs. They can afford to lose a republican senator who's a "no" vote so long as they pick up a few "yes" votes either by primarying Collins or McCain or by flipping a Democratic seat that won in 2012 on Obama's coattails. One more strong conservative vote and they can pass anything, now that they've eliminated the filibuster.
I'm starting to think Democrats are suicidal.

I'm starting to wish you were suicidal
An apology doesn't get you out of misconduct. The initial accusation was a little weird in how quickly it was dropped and it seemed like a situation where Franken misjudged boundaries but did not necessarily attempt to harm someone. The accusation today is something that is hard to chalk up to a misjudgment of boundaries. 

Huckabee's "well, Franken admitted it and Trump hasn't admitted it, so Franken is a wrongdoer and Trump is innocent" thing is obviously testing the excuse the Republicans are going to use from here on out. This is why we NEED a non-partisan oversight system to undertake ethics investigations when these accusations are made. If we rely on people to resign only if the party decides it's time to be rid of them or if they are ashamed enough of the scandal that they want out of the public eye, then we're just giving a free pass to the Republicans, who have no shame and who are entirely self-serving.
Politics and Current Events / Re: Trumpocalypse
ultimately though i think this is going to die in the senate because even the core of the bill is horrific. the GOP's reach has exceeded its grasp and their policies actually suck enough that "moderate" republican senators have to worry about the fallout at the polls even if there's no gratuitous bullshit. at least i hope that will happen. but i suppose it's always possible that there will be enough turncoat dems thirsting for bipartisanship to pretend that a "compromise" that gives the GOP almost everything they really want is a good idea. eta: the reason i think this is plausible and why i think the crazy bullshit is primarily ablative is because so much liberal attention is focused on the crazy bullshit that it will be harder to argue against a tax bill that doesn't have that stuff. clearly, in that case the GOP has "compromised" by agreeing not to utterly destroy higher education to give rich people more jets, so we should meet them halfway.

To an extent I don't think this is even ablative so much as signaling to their donors that they could and would make their wildest dreams come true if only they primary the fuck out of the few people like Flake or McCain who won't get on board. The Republicans aren't trying to actually get substantive tax reform enacted. They are trying to say "don't cut me off, cut this other guy off." Repubs still think they'll win big in 2018 and the biggest threat to any individual republican senator is being successfully primaried from the right, not being beaten by a democrat in the general.
I'm also not questioning any of the accusations. Just saying this has some weird overlap with historical racist stereotypes and that this is disconcerting.
Pandora how do you propose to keep a company town alive when the company shutters or leaves?

At some point the town will have to be subsidized by government, reinvent itself, train and educate its people to do something else or die and everyone packs up and leaves anyway.
They should undergo some combination of those things.  Some degree of subsidy, some level of initiative to reinvent the town, training and education, and some degree of migration.  All of those are options, and all of them are reasonable.

I'm a bit more taken aback by the condescension here and the lack of sympathy shown.  Also quite flabbergasted by the casual "oh they should just always travel for work, that's a fine solution" put forth so cavalierly.

Jesus christ.  The people expressing no sympathy and suggesting that these people deserve what they're getting in some way are the exact same people who insist that the minimum wage (which only really matters in cities) should be higher because people aren't making a livable wage, and companies should be forced to make sure that anyone, no matter how completely untrained and uneducated should be able to live a decent life on minimum wages.  They're the same people who insist that the wealthy should pay ever-increasing progressive taxes, because they don't merit what they've earned, and the less fortunate should be able to benefit from the incomes of the wealthy (as long as they live in cities and vote democrat, I guess).  They're the same people who argue that UBI is a fine idea, and hold up the results from tiny rural towns in other countries over a short period of time as evidence of how wonderful it would be if everyone just all got their needs met!

I guess those sentiments don't actually hold once you get outside of some academic hypothetical and start looking at real fucking people?  I suppose that generosity of spirit only extends to people who vote the way they are supposed to, and who are willing to uproot and move to fucking cities where they can be surrounded by the lovely piss-smell that envelops all of San Francisco.  Or you know, where the denizens of the city consider it an artistic expression to stick gum on the side of a wall over the course of several years - that's a tourist attraction right there!

God I hate cities.  And for the most part I'm none too fond of city-dwellers who have convinced themselves that city life is the bestest and living on top of each other with no wilderness, no privacy, and no quiet is just the best thing in the world... and anyone who doesn't share that view just isn't worth their effort  ::)

ETA:  Maybe a bit over the top.  It may not apply to all of you.  Just an awful lot.  And it's hardly limited to this board.  It's a pretty common viewpoint that is just astonishingly condescending and arrogant.

But hey - we get to have a major thoroughfare be built as a tunnel through unstable ground at a much higher cost than the raised freeway that was the alternative.  The viaduct is ALREADY a raised freeway through downtown.  But you know - making it a tunnel will increase the property value of the already-wealthy who want a better view of the sound  ::)

For a libertarian, you sure do seem to think that the government ought to spend a lot of taxpayer money on your way of life.