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Topic: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance? (Read 2405 times) previous topic - next topic

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RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Absolutely according to Dave Godfrey.  What say you?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #1
Yep.
Here.
Read this:
Molecular Epidemiology of Malaria
... just as one f'rinstance.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #2
How is molecular epidemiology equal to RM + NS?

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #3
Google!
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • nesb
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #4
What's all this about the Rocky Mountain Neurosurgical Society?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #5
How is molecular epidemiology equal to RM + NS?
Much more intimately than Yáfet/Shem/Ham is related to languages.
Read the article if you're interested.
Don't if you're not.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • Fenrir
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #6
How is molecular epidemiology equal to RM + NS?
Much more intimately than Yáfet/Shem/Ham is related to languages.
Read the article if you're interested.
Don't if you're not.

It's not simple cheerleading with vague assertions implied to support an ideological conclusion and therefore not suited to the mining of "nuggets". Therefore unreadable.
It's what plants crave.

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #7
RM + NS is vital when trying to understand most kinds of adaptations, but RM isn't the only source of variation.  It can be really important, or not, depending on the particular adaptation and corresponding (if applicable) genomic change. 

Variation followed by selection does cover a whole hell of a lot of scenarios though.

What it isn't is a fucking miracle combined with a childish tale, as Hawkins simultaneously denigrates it as, while believing wholeheartedly in a tale that is childishly miraculous.

  • Photon
  • I interfere with myself
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #8
Mind you Dave doesn't believe in pathogens, once your terrain is perfected with raw milk from 100% grass-fed beef, ... er grass-fed goats, ... er goats that eat grass plus branches sometimes plus supplements then all those nasty microbes become your friends, all your dental caries heal, and you will be blessed by god and have a pretty view of the woods.

  • Pingu
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #9
How is molecular epidemiology equal to RM + NS?

If you stopped using that stupid abbreviation and tried to understand the theory, you might get somewhere.

"Random Mutation plus Natural Selection" is a very poor description of the theory.  It doesn't even consist of two things added together.

"Natural Selection" is in any case a metaphor.  No selecting occurs.  It is simply a bias on the drift of heritable variation through a population, reflecting what promotes reproduction in a given environment.

I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #10
Lol. Ok. Now that is octohatter.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Pingu
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #11
Lol. Ok. Now that is octohatter.

Yes.  Well.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #12
 :)
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #13
How is molecular epidemiology equal to RM + NS?
Much more intimately than Yáfet/Shem/Ham is related to languages.
Read the article if you're interested.
Don't if you're not.
You mean ... like YOU should read Jones and Faber if you're interested in non-Biblical accounts of Noah and his three sons? OK ... I'll buy that.

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #14
RM + NS is vital when trying to understand most kinds of adaptations, but RM isn't the only source of variation.  It can be really important, or not, depending on the particular adaptation and corresponding (if applicable) genomic change. 

Variation followed by selection does cover a whole hell of a lot of scenarios though.

What it isn't is a fucking miracle combined with a childish tale, as Hawkins simultaneously denigrates it as, while believing wholeheartedly in a tale that is childishly miraculous.
Lol

Let me introduce you to Mr. (Dr?) Ayala ... have you heard of him?  No? 
Quote
Ayala, Francisco J., "The Mechanisms of Evolution," Scientific American, vol. 239 (September 1978), pp. 56-69.
p. 58
"A mutation can be considered an error in the replication of DNA prior to its translation into protein."
p. 59
"The forces that give rise to gene mutations operate at random in the sense that genetic mutations occur without reference to their future adaptiveness in the environment."
p. 63
"It therefore seems clear that, contrary to Darwin's conception, most of the genetic variation in populations arises not from new mutations at each generation but from the reshuffling of previously accumulated mutations by recombination. [Orthodoxy alert ... "Our Father RM which art in heaven ... hallowed be thy name ... homina homina] Although mutation is the ultimate source of all genetic variation, it is a relatively rare event, [yeah and it's destructive, not creative] providing a mere trickle of new alleles into the much larger reservoir of stored genetic variation. Indeed recombination alone is sufficient to enable a population to expose its hidden variation for many generations without the need for new genetic input by mutation."
p. 64
"In any case there can be no doubt that the staggering amount of genetic variation in natural populations provides ample opportunities for evolution to occur. Hence it is not surprising that whenever a new environmental challenge materializes--a change of climate, the introduction of a new predator or competitor, man-made pollution--populations are usually able to adapt to it. http://truthmatters.info/more-useful-quotes-for-creationists/
  • Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:42:06 AM by Dave Hawkins

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #15
"Localized random mutation, selection operating "one gene at a time" (John Maynard Smith's formulation), and gradual modification of individual functions are unable to provide satisfactory explanations for the molecular data, no matter how much time for change is assumed. There are simply too many potential degrees of freedom for random variability and too many interconnections to account for."

--James Shapiro

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #16
"It has been a surprise to learn how thoroughly cells protect themselves against precisely the kinds of accidental genetic change that, according to conventional [Darwin] theory, are the sources of evolutionary variability."

--James Shapiro

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #17
But never mind all that ...

"RM + NS is absolutely essential for  combatting drug resistance."

Lol

Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #18
Copying this howler from Lizzie over here ...
Quote
It's not nearly as dead as Newtonian mechanics, which is actually wrong.  "neo-Darwinism" isn't wrong - it just leaves quite a lot out.
Leaves out a lot. Yeah.  Like everything.  BUT IT'S NOT WRONG!!!

ROFL

Meanwhile, "Newtonian mechanics is wrong."

Yeah, in the same sense that I am wrong my saying that I weigh 180 lbs.

Lol

  • Faid
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #19
RM + NS is vital when trying to understand most kinds of adaptations, but RM isn't the only source of variation.  It can be really important, or not, depending on the particular adaptation and corresponding (if applicable) genomic change. 

Variation followed by selection does cover a whole hell of a lot of scenarios though.

What it isn't is a fucking miracle combined with a childish tale, as Hawkins simultaneously denigrates it as, while believing wholeheartedly in a tale that is childishly miraculous.
Lol

Let me introduce you to Mr. (Dr?) Ayala ... have you heard of him?  No?
Quote
Ayala, Francisco J., "The Mechanisms of Evolution," Scientific American, vol. 239 (September 1978), pp. 56-69.
p. 58
"A mutation can be considered an error in the replication of DNA prior to its translation into protein."
p. 59
"The forces that give rise to gene mutations operate at random in the sense that genetic mutations occur without reference to their future adaptiveness in the environment."
p. 63
"It therefore seems clear that, contrary to Darwin's conception, most of the genetic variation in populations arises not from new mutations at each generation but from the reshuffling of previously accumulated mutations by recombination. [Orthodoxy alert ... "Our Father RM which art in heaven ... hallowed be thy name ... homina homina- OH WAIT IT STILL TALKS ABOUT MUTATIONS welp better not highlight that]
Helped you a bit with your highlighting there, also edited for clarity. Thank me later. :D
Quote
Although mutation is the ultimate source of all genetic variation, it is a relatively rare event, [yeah and it's destructive, not creative] providing a mere trickle of new alleles into the much larger reservoir of stored genetic variation. Indeed recombination alone is sufficient to enable a population to expose its hidden variation for many generations without the need for new genetic input by mutation."[/b]
Hey dave! Do you perhaps remember who said this?

"mutations can add information to a genome. And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

Don't worry, It's not Ayala.
Quote

p. 64
"In any case there can be no doubt that the staggering amount of genetic variation in natural populations provides ample opportunities for evolution to occur. Hence it is not surprising that whenever a new environmental challenge materializes--a change of climate, the introduction of a new predator or competitor, man-made pollution--populations are usually able to adapt to it. http://truthmatters.info/more-useful-quotes-for-creationists/
Hooray for previously accumulated mutations!

Oh wait.

:rofl:
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Pingu
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #20
Copying this howler from Lizzie over here ...
Quote
It's not nearly as dead as Newtonian mechanics, which is actually wrong.  "neo-Darwinism" isn't wrong - it just leaves quite a lot out.
Leaves out a lot. Yeah.  Like everything.  BUT IT'S NOT WRONG!!!

ROFL

Meanwhile, "Newtonian mechanics is wrong."

Yeah, in the same sense that I am wrong my saying that I weigh 180 lbs.

Lol

Well, think about it Dave.  Instead of simply loling.  Look again at Newtons laws of motion.   Then look at Einstein.  Newton's equations are actually wrong.

Whereas neo-Darwinism isn't wrong in that way - genes really are a major cause of inherited features and those features really are things that can help an organism reproduce more than its fellows.

It's just that there are vectors of inheritance other than genes, and units other than the phenotype that are subject to selection.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Faid
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #21
Are you really expecting dave to even TRY to comprehend that?
Who even made the rule that we cannot group ducks and fish together for the simple reason that they are both aquatic? If I want to group them that way and it serves my purpose then I can jolly well do it however I want to and it is still a nested hierarchy and you can't tell me that it's not.

  • Pingu
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #22
How is molecular epidemiology equal to RM + NS?
Much more intimately than Yáfet/Shem/Ham is related to languages.
Read the article if you're interested.
Don't if you're not.
You mean ... like YOU should read Jones and Faber if you're interested in non-Biblical accounts of Noah and his three sons? OK ... I'll buy that.

I'm no more interested in non-Biblical accounts of Noah than I am in teapots orbiting Mars.  If you think there are such things, then maybe I'd be interested.

But - to use your own favored expression - you'd need to "sell me on" the case that they exist.  LIke, saying what they are, for instance.

Or even telling us what Faber and Jones think they are.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • Pingu
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #23
"Localized random mutation, selection operating "one gene at a time" (John Maynard Smith's formulation), and gradual modification of individual functions are unable to provide satisfactory explanations for the molecular data, no matter how much time for change is assumed. There are simply too many potential degrees of freedom for random variability and too many interconnections to account for."

--James Shapiro

What causes the variation is a matter for investigation, Dave.  It does not refute neo-Darwinism.

Or only if you reduce it to that idiotic shorthand "RM+NS" and misunderstand the word "random".  Which, btw, Darwin, at least to my knowledge, did not use.
I have a Darwin-debased mind.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: RM + NS: Essential for Combating Drug Resistance?
Reply #24
Copying this howler from Lizzie over here ...
Quote
It's not nearly as dead as Newtonian mechanics, which is actually wrong.  "neo-Darwinism" isn't wrong - it just leaves quite a lot out.
Leaves out a lot. Yeah.  Like everything.  BUT IT'S NOT WRONG!!!
You haven't read that malaria article, have you? :sad:

"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins