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Topic: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal (Read 898 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • nesb
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #25
So it does. And that's sourced to a letter in Nature.

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #26
I was reading about Lake Baikal today, which is thought to be the oldest lake on the planet, at about 25 million years old. It's also home to its very own seal--the Baikal seal, or nerpa--which is the only freshwater seal, and only lives there. #RandomNatureFacts
So we would expect it to have 25 million varves, right?
Jesus Christ you are an idiot Dave.  No, we wouldn't expect anything.  We would look at what is there and see what we find.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #27
Ok, why do you disagree with the sediments depositing in lakes statement, and I really, really, really want to know why you don't agree with yours or Brown's c14 curve?
Lots of lakes would've been formed in the post-flood run off and it doesn't appear that  your statement takes that into account.   Brown did a good job of identifying the problem but his analysis understandably was not very detailed.  Mine wasn't either.

It doesn't actually matter. The main point is that lakes accumulate sediment since their formation. Under your flood scenario, that would presumably mean a chunk of deposition during runoff, and then slow deposition since then. I'm happy to work with that. Are you?

Yes/No

As for the other no, can you rewrite it in a form you do agree with. I presume that fundamentally you want ~3000 BP = 3000 C14, and ~5000BP = 50000 C14?

Yes/No
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

  • nesb
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #28
My source said 5 million. Now I can never trust again.
I just checked your source. Later it says 12 million. Third bullet.

Looking into it, the number of layers given seems to simply apply to those in a particular sediment core, and you could probably get one of those with more layers by simply drilling deeper. If I'm understanding what I've been reading correctly, that is. So the 5,000,000 number probably applies to a different core that was drilled earlier.

So maybe there are 25,0000,000 layers under the lake. Don't know.

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #29
Seems that there's some disagreement. I can't find an authoritative source right now.
Well dammit, we better get this settled along with the question of how tall Jack's beanstalk was.

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #30
Ok, why do you disagree with the sediments depositing in lakes statement, and I really, really, really want to know why you don't agree with yours or Brown's c14 curve?
Lots of lakes would've been formed in the post-flood run off and it doesn't appear that  your statement takes that into account.   Brown did a good job of identifying the problem but his analysis understandably was not very detailed.  Mine wasn't either.

It doesn't actually matter. The main point is that lakes accumulate sediment since their formation. Under your flood scenario, that would presumably mean a chunk of deposition during runoff, and then slow deposition since then. I'm happy to work with that. Are you?

Yes/No

As for the other no, can you rewrite it in a form you do agree with. I presume that fundamentally you want ~3000 BP = 3000 C14, and ~5000BP = 50000 C14?

Yes/No
yes and yes

  • fredbear
  • Militantly Confused
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #31
Seems that there's some disagreement. I can't find an authoritative source right now.
Well dammit, we better get this settled along with the question of how tall Jack's beanstalk was.
You are such a dick, Dave.
"...without considering any evidence at all - that my views are more likely - on average - to be correct.  Because the mainstream is almost always wrong" - Dave Hawkins

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #32
Ok cool. Let's continue.

So, from your points we can make a couple of simple predictions.
Assuming our lake is not subject to drying up (causing hiatuses), flooding (causing flood deposits) or other unusual events, we would expect fairly consistent deposition for the top  of ~5000 years, then a large flood deposit below that for the rest of the sediment.
In addition, we would expect C14 dates along the lake cores to correlate with depth until 3000 BP, then trend rapidly towards much older ages.

Assuming an ideal lake with 20m of sediment in the bottom, we date a core from that lake, and find that 1.5m of sediment has an age of ~1500 years, and 3m of sediment has an age of ~3000 years.

What do you think the C14 age for the core is likely to be at 5m depth?
~5000 years
~50000 years
~Derp
  • Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 04:45:28 PM by Martin.au
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #33
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #34
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?
How about an agnostic who takes no position?
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • JonF
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #35
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?
It's pretty much impossible to affect the results without deliberate fraud, and it is impossible to produce a predetermined result.
"I would never consider my evaluation of his work to be fair minded unless I had actually read his own words." - Dave Hawkins

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #36
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?
"If it doesn't produce a result I like, it must be a conspiraceeeeeee!"
Truth is out of style

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #37
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?
How about an agnostic who takes no position?
Do you know any agnostics who take no position on the Age of the Earth?  I've never met one online or anywhere else.

  • osmanthus
  • Administrator
  • Fingerer of piglets
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #38
I think Dave's real concern is that if the lab is owned by a YEC it would be unreliable, given how much YEC's lie.
Truth is out of style

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #39
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?
How about an agnostic who takes no position?
Do you know any agnostics who take no position on the Age of the Earth?  I've never met one online or anywhere else.

Why would their position on that affect the readings given by their machines? I'm saying agnostic as to the date expected from a sample.
Love is like a magic penny
 if you hold it tight you won't have any
if you give it away you'll have so many
they'll be rolling all over the floor

  • Fenrir
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #40
Hmm.

C14:C12 from 1% of current to 100% of current in 2 000 years.

That's a hella cosmic ray flux.

Prolly just as well the unfeasably high CO2 levels made everyone imbeciles so they didn't notice the toasting eh David?
It's what plants crave.

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #41
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?
How about an agnostic who takes no position?
Do you know any agnostics who take no position on the Age of the Earth?  I've never met one online or anywhere else.

Bookmarked, in case anyone is ever again foolish enough to fall for Hawkins's "I'm prepared to look at this question in good faith!" gambit.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #42
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?

Why would it matter? Describe how a YEC lab would treat samples differently to a normal lab?

And to focus back on the topic, let's assume the labs use the same technique that they do for sub 3000 year ages, which you've stated you're happy with.

What do you think the C14 age for the core is likely to be at 5m depth?
~5000 years
~50000 years
~Derp
"That which can be asserted with evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Dave Hawkins)

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #43
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?

Why would it matter? Describe how a YEC lab would treat samples differently to a normal lab?

And to focus back on the topic, let's assume the labs use the same technique that they do for sub 3000 year ages, which you've stated you're happy with.

What do you think the C14 age for the core is likely to be at 5m depth?
~5000 years
~50000 years
~Derp
5000 years because the lab is owned by Old Earthers so "anomalous" dates are discarded.

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #44
Now let me ask you something ... that lake discussed earlier supposedly has 12 million "varves" in it.  What would you expect for the carbon 14 date for Varve #50,000?

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #45
Bottom line:
Hawkins accepts pseudoscience from pseudoscientists telling him what he wants to believe.
Hawking rejects science from scientists telling him what he doesn't want to believe.
No further investigations necessary.
Data that would have proved him right are routinely discarded, in an international, transcentury conspiracy .
These "discussions"  where  Hawkins comes in with "Look! I'm going to be all open-minded and scientific now! Explain to me why science is right and YEC is wrong!" - it's all just Lucy and the football, over and over and over and...

Same as it ever was.
Same. As. It. Ever. Was.
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

  • VoxRat
  • wtactualf
Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #46
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?

Why would it matter? Describe how a YEC lab would treat samples differently to a normal lab?

And to focus back on the topic, let's assume the labs use the same technique that they do for sub 3000 year ages, which you've stated you're happy with.

What do you think the C14 age for the core is likely to be at 5m depth?
~5000 years
~50000 years
~Derp
5000 years because the lab is owned by Old Earthers so "anomalous" dates are discarded. 
Derp

fyp
"I understand Donald Trump better than many people because I really am a lot like him." - Dave Hawkins

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #47
Now let me ask you something ... that lake discussed earlier supposedly has 12 million "varves" in it.  What would you expect for the carbon 14 date for Varve #50,000?
For your reference ... Lake Baikal was supposedly formed 25 million years ago ... here's a geologic evolution map for that period of time ... http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/namPo25.jpg ... I can't find one that includes Russia / Siberia.  Here's a reference with a handy timeline of all the supposed geologic ages ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Earth ... So this lake was supposedly formed during the late Oligocene and started "varving" during the middle Miocene. 

Carry on!

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #48
Seems that there's some disagreement. I can't find an authoritative source right now.
Well dammit, we better get this settled along with the question of how tall Jack's beanstalk was.
So in this analogy, Jack's beanstalk = lake varves. In other words, you are saying that lake varves, which you have actually seen pictures of, are imaginary. Seriously, think for half a second before you reflexively type dumb shit like this.

Re: Hey Dave. Here's a single topic (no curves), to test Brown's proposal
Reply #49
Who owns the AMS lab? A young earth creationist? Or an old earther?

Why would it matter? Describe how a YEC lab would treat samples differently to a normal lab?

And to focus back on the topic, let's assume the labs use the same technique that they do for sub 3000 year ages, which you've stated you're happy with.

What do you think the C14 age for the core is likely to be at 5m depth?
~5000 years
~50000 years
~Derp
5000 years because the lab is owned by Old Earthers so "anomalous" dates are discarded.

Dave, do you understand that what you are saying here is that you will automatically disregard any evidence that contradicts your beliefs? And in the same breath, you are baselessly accusing the people who discover that evidence of doing what you are actually doing?