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Topic: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable  (Read 746 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • F X
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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #50
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #51
Gold is unfalsifiable
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #52
maybe I should move the entire thread over to A&E, just to annoy boris
:sadyes:

Big Bang Theory predicts that galaxies farther from Earth will be moving away from Earth faster than galaxies that are closer. Since this prediction could be shown to be wrong using observations we know how to make, Big Bang Theory is falsifiable.
Do you mean a specific big bang theory with a host of assumptions based on our outrageously limited knowledge of the universe?

No, not the cartoon version in your head.

Quote
Yeah,
thought so

It's extremely rude to ask a question and then presume to answer it for me. I shan't engage with you again, dickwad.

  • Brother Daniel
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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #53
Good idea.  Maybe you'll have better luck pretending to understand the word "theoretical" than you do with pretending to understand the word "falsifiable".
Ha, I'd like to see you prove the big bang theory with hard evidence: mathematical speculation is not evidence.
Not off to a very good start.  :no:

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #54
Science isn't about "proof" or proving shit.  There is no such thing as "scientific proof".

In casual conversations, most people use the word "proof" when they mean that there is indisputable evidence that supports an idea.

Science does not "prove" things. Science can and does provide evidence in favor of, or against, a particular idea. In science, proofs are possible only in the highly abstract world of mathematics.

If something is mathematical and proven, it's called a law. Because some things can be stated as having been proved true.  Other things are not.

A theory is an explanation which is backed by "a considerable body of evidence," while a law is a set of regularities expressed in a "mathematical statement." This is why Newton's Laws of Motion are referred to as laws and not theories. They are expressed with simple equations (like f = ma for his 2nd Law of Motion).

Evolution, and most of Biology, cannot be expressed in a concise mathematical equation, so it is referred to as a theory. 

Or something like that.  Science is complicated.

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #55
We now return you to your regularly scheduled trolling and other stupid ass shit.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #56
Quote
The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
That's because it's unfalse

True...  it would be very easy to falsify, if it were false.  It makes all sorts of testable predictions.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #57
Quote
The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
That's because it's unfalse

You don't understand what falsifiable means in a scientific context.

A theory makes predictions.  If data is found that doesn't fit those predictions it has been falsified.

For a theory to be falsifiable there needs to be some test and a hypothetical result to that test that would say the theory is false.

For example, put an atomic clock on a jet plane.  Did time slow?  If not, you falsified special relativity.

  • el jefe
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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #58
ha ha Loren believes in relativity what a idiot lol

  • Fenrir
Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #59
Oh my sides!

 :cheer:  :sadcheer:
It's what plants crave.

  • nesb
Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #60
If we didn't find redshift or CMB, then the theory would have been falsified. I'm sorry for serious-replying to a BSB post, but this is uniquely stupid.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #61
Science isn't about "proof" or proving shit.  There is no such thing as "scientific proof".

In casual conversations, most people use the word "proof" when they mean that there is indisputable evidence that supports an idea.

Science does not "prove" things. Science can and does provide evidence in favor of, or against, a particular idea. In science, proofs are possible only in the highly abstract world of mathematics.

If something is mathematical and proven, it's called a law. Because some things can be stated as having been proved true.  Other things are not.

A theory is an explanation which is backed by "a considerable body of evidence," while a law is a set of regularities expressed in a "mathematical statement." This is why Newton's Laws of Motion are referred to as laws and not theories. They are expressed with simple equations (like f = ma for his 2nd Law of Motion).

Evolution, and most of Biology, cannot be expressed in a concise mathematical equation, so it is referred to as a theory. 

Or something like that.  Science is complicated.


WRONG.

Newton's theory could explain a vast number of the phenomena happening in the observable world. The big bang as a starting point of everything is unobservable.
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #62
Quote
The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
That's because it's unfalse

True...  it would be very easy to falsify, if it were false.  It makes all sorts of testable predictions.
WRONG.

Testable predictions that could be the result of something else. Remember, for many hundreds years, people thought the orbits of the planets MUST be perfect circles...
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #63
Quote
The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
That's because it's unfalse

You don't understand what falsifiable means in a scientific context.

A theory makes predictions.  If data is found that doesn't fit those predictions it has been falsified.

For a theory to be falsifiable there needs to be some test and a hypothetical result to that test that would say the theory is false.

For example, put an atomic clock on a jet plane.  Did time slow?  If not, you falsified special relativity.
WRONG.

It could certainly be something else. Falsifiability is dumb.
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #64
Gold is unfalsifiable
Solipsistic considerations are usually suspended for higher-level debate. If we assume the self as existing, the definition and composition of gold are readily available. Gold is something more than yellow. I would venture to argue that it is not even a shade of yellow. Gold is gold.
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #65
If we didn't find redshift or CMB, then the theory would have been falsified. I'm sorry for serious-replying to a BSB post, but this is uniquely stupid.
I try to be uniquely stupid because being commonly intelligent is fucking boring.

But finding redshift should not make the theory the dominant theory. That is the result of our Judeo-Christian bias. A Big Crunch, Big Bang theory is just as valid but we always ramble on about "The Big Bang". The Big Bang is unobservable/unfalsifiable and hence just a theory. And it is not even the best theory. It is paraded as the best theory because that is the theory we want to be true as a collective.
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #66
ha ha Loren believes in relativity what a idiot lol

1)  I was simply giving a demonstration of what falsifiable meant.

2)  You ever hear of the GPS system?  You don't get the right answers if you use Newtonian math.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #67
Sorry guys, if something is unfalsifiable, we cannot entertain it as a theory. We have to forget about it.
just because it is not provable (falsifiable) now does not mean is unprovable forever..
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."
― Mark Twain 🔭

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #68
Some of you still don't get it.

Falsifiable means there's a test where a certain result produces an outcome that the theory is false.  That does not mean that passing the test shows it's true.  In general, theories can never be proven true.  It's just a theory that has passed many attempts to falsify it is accepted as true.

Note, also, that theories that have stood up well for some time before being dethroned often still are useful.  For example, Newton--while Einstein showed that Newton's answers are only an approximation, for the realm we live in it's almost always good enough.  You only encounter cases where it matters in the scientific realm or if you go off Earth.  Note, however, the one common example of where it does show up for the average person:  GPS.  While we are sitting here on Earth the satellites your receiver is listening to are not on Earth.  GPS requires tremendous precision, the tiny effects due to the height and speed of the GPS satellites cause errors larger than the normal civilian GPS accuracy if you don't use the Einsteinian math.

  • el jefe
  • asleep till 2020 or 2024
Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #69
haha, Loran believes in "gps" lol what a idiot

welcome back, boris

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #70
Testable predictions that could be the result of something else.
That's why you can't prove a theory true in science. But the Big Bang would still be falsified if those predictions were wrong.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #71
ha ha Loren believes in relativity what a idiot lol

1)  I was simply giving a demonstration of what falsifiable meant.

2)  You ever hear of the GPS system?  You don't get the right answers if you use Newtonian math.

And what a fine demonstration it was!

There was GPS in Newton's time???
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #72
Some of you still don't get it.

Falsifiable means there's a test where a certain result produces an outcome that the theory is false.  That does not mean that passing the test shows it's true.  In general, theories can never be proven true.  It's just a theory that has passed many attempts to falsify it is accepted as true.

Note, also, that theories that have stood up well for some time before being dethroned often still are useful.  For example, Newton--while Einstein showed that Newton's answers are only an approximation, for the realm we live in it's almost always good enough.  You only encounter cases where it matters in the scientific realm or if you go off Earth.  Note, however, the one common example of where it does show up for the average person:  GPS.  While we are sitting here on Earth the satellites your receiver is listening to are not on Earth.  GPS requires tremendous precision, the tiny effects due to the height and speed of the GPS satellites cause errors larger than the normal civilian GPS accuracy if you don't use the Einsteinian math.
No, Loren, just because it has passed many tests does not mean it is true. The Big Bang or the Big Crunch could be true. Falsifiability (at least on with our current technology) will not help us here, but for some reason the Big Bang is the number one theory!

Let me put it another way, Loren: Newtonian math is not accepted as true just because mathematicians agree to its validity. It is accepted because we can see that it is true in the real world, as you pointed out. That is evidence. Absolute proof. Now, I have no idea if there is a possibility that we could find evidence that would falsify the Big Bang or falsify the Big Crunch, but it does seem rather unlikely to me. It would seem to me that we would have to exist near the end of the universe (if there is an end) to falsify one of these theories.
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #73
Testable predictions that could be the result of something else.
That's why you can't prove a theory true in science. But the Big Bang would still be falsified if those predictions were wrong.
So, you are telling me that huge swaths of Newtonian mathematics that correspond over and over and over again with observable phenomena  are not considered proven? Surely, you jest..
  • Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 06:12:12 AM by Blueskyboris
Self-censorship is the lamest form of censorship.

Re: The Big Bang Theory is Unfalsifiable
Reply #74
Testable predictions that could be the result of something else.
That's why you can't prove a theory true in science. But the Big Bang would still be falsified if those predictions were wrong.
So, you are telling me that huge swaths of Newtonian mathematics that correspond over and over and over again with observable phenomena  are not considered proven? Surely, you jest..
No, not in the sense that mathematical formulas can be proven. In science, repeated success of a theory to make predictions makes it a useful model. It doesn't prove it true in some absolute sense. But that's kind of a side issue. My point was that proving a theory true and proving it false are two distinct concepts. The latter is possible in science. The former is not. The Big Bang could be proven false, so it is a scientific theory.